Saturday, March 28, 2015

"Who am I" and Other Important Questions

[Approximate Reading Time: 20 minutes]

We like to think that one of the most fundamental questions that one could ever ask is the BIG one: Who am I? Related to it are questions such as, “what is my purpose?”, “where do I come from?”, “where am I going?”, etc. All these are very relevant and valid questions for our times, no doubt.

Here, I don't intend to find answers to these questions but I'd like to explore certain assumptions that underlie these existential questions and the way we frame them. In other words, we ask meta-questions, or questions about these questions. I find this a very useful practice that helps me more deeply understand the intent behind a question. Asking questions such as the following can be helpful:
  1. What circumstances most encourage the asking of this question? What circumstances make it a meaningless question to ask?
  2. Who asks this question the most? The rich or the poor, the modern man or the ancient man, the urbanite or the rural folk? How might their answers differ from each other?
  3. What are some of the primary assumptions that underlie this question? Where is the questioner coming from, figuratively speaking? What is the questioner taking for granted?
  4. How do other cultures (tribal and indigenous cultures) approach this question? Does the question even make sense to them?
In India, when two villagers run into each other, they don't ask each other, "what do you do?" or "who are you?" but "where are you from?" The relationship with the village one hails from is more important than what one thinks about who he is or about his relationship to God. Many last names of people all over the world in fact refer to their place of birth or their ancestral village. Charles de Gaulle is Charles of Gaulle. My own last name is the name of my ancestral village. Incidentally, the answer to "where are you from?" gives the villager a lot more to work with. The name of a village is enough to paint a broad picture of someone from there, thereby implicitly making the question "who are you?" redundant and unnecessary and perhaps even meaningless.

It turns out that the questions "who are you?" and "who am I?" are relatively new in the bag of all the questions human beings have asked of themselves and others. They are a sign of disconnection from Land. When people migrate from their villages to towns and cities to take up jobs in factories and offices, it doesn't matter a whole lot where they come from. In the soup pot of urban humanity, the native place and the ancestral village that one hails from is more or less irrelevant. What matters is what they do for a living, where they went to trade school or graduate school, which part of the city they live in,  and what they did last weekend.

If we ask a child the question, "who are you?", we are likely to get an answer along the lines of, "I'm the daughter of my parents, so and so." In many rural areas of the world, adults too identify themselves through their relationships with others, especially their parents or grandparents and seldom talk about themselves as individuals. In some cultures, the names of both parents are mentioned along with the adult's name on identification cards, government documents, sale deeds, etc. It goes without saying that invoking parentage and sometimes other close relationships is a valid approach to answering the question "who are you?" in many parts of the world even today. And it has been a valid approach historically before the rise of the city. It's difficult to see this at a time when almost two thirds of Americans live in urban areas, long separated from their native places.

The rise of Western style individualism happened in parallel with the mass migrations of villagers to towns and townsfolk to cities. Separated from their native places, thrown into a hodge podge of other migrants from all over the region, the question of one's identity suffered a massive blow. It was no longer rooted in one's community, human relationships, culture, traditions and most importantly, the Land, but was instead immediately force fitted into a new mold cast by urban culture and the factory town. Identity now came primarily from the kind of work one did. Hence the question, "what do you do?" which has become a more gentle replacement to the increasingly irrelevant "where are you from?". Identity also came from one's socio-economic class, religious affiliation, etc., and the question of ancestry and Land stopped coming up.

With the questioner uprooted from the Land, the question, "who am I?", took on an other-worldly connotation, a philosophical one (whatever that means), a spiritual one (whatever that means), anything but the one that invites the most ordinary and mundane response: "I'm the son of so and so." or "I'm from so and so village". It's as if we didn't come from our parents. It's as if our parents didn't come from theirs. It's as if our ancestry is irrelevant to this fundamental question. It's as if the land that gave birth to our ancestors is even more irrelevant. All this is not surprising considering that the cult of progress has placed horse blinders on modern urban man preventing him from looking back and seeing where he came from. History is irrelevant. Pre-history even more so.

But if we care to ask of ourselves, “what is the most fundamental question that humanity has ever asked in its entire history?”, we might get a different approach handed to us, waiting to be explored. Put differently, “what was the most fundamental question that made my own ancestors pause and wonder a thousand years ago, or twenty thousand?” If we descended from our ancestors, which is quite evident, shouldn't we first try to empathize with them and try to see the world through their eyes, if only for a split second? Asking a question such as “Who am I” begs looking into our ancestry and wondering how they handled this question. Why are we so quick to reduce our past to irrelevance? Perhaps we should ask the meta-question, “when did this question that asks who I am become the most fundamental question?” Although asking such meta-questions opens up the field of inquiry and increases the scope of the original question, it's a way to understand the premise behind the question and ultimately narrow down the context surrounding it.

It turns out that the most fundamental question for 99% of our existence on the planet is not “Who am I”, but perhaps, “Where are my people?” This is the question every child asks and this is the question one would ask on one’s deathbed. This is the question that an accident victim coming out of coma might ask. This is the thought we might be conscious of upon waking up in the morning and before going to bed, if we aren't preoccupied with our busy individualistic lives. Where are my people? This is the question we've asked throughout our history. We ask it today even more, reflecting the loss of community and social fabric that has long held different peoples together. We are led to believe that we can lead successful lives alone without the help of others, especially in cities where we rely on the State  to provide for our needs, but in reality, we couldn't even as much as make a cup of coffee without others’ participation and help. When a politician runs for office, this is the question that comes to her mind, “where are my people?” Common man or businessman, we’re constantly seeking connections with “our people”. Even a loner living alone in the middle of a forest, sick and tired of others, still defines who he is in terms of who he is not: his people. He says he is not his people.

If you’re a survivalist resigned to near-term extinction, it’s still the most important question: “where are my people?” because you need help to survive. If you’re bent upon stopping further suffering, delaying the inevitable and softening the blow (saving the world, in other words), it’s still the same question. It’s not an individual’s job. Somehow, everything we seem to face these days, individually or collectively, forces us to ask this question. The hard boundaries set forth by Western style individualism begin to break down when we ask that question and we will get past “who am I?” and see that everything is inter-connected. We might as well ask, “what is all this I am aware of in this moment?”

A whole set of assumptions lie underneath these two very different questions: “Who am I?” and “Where are my people?” With the latter, the main assumption is this: we already have a good idea of how to answer the question, “who are my people”. It’s closely related to “who am I” without the individualistic boundaries associated with the latter. My people are as important as I am. I am one with my people. And who are we? We are one with the Land and other creation around us. To make things easier, we long made up creation stories that illustrate this essential oneness. We might have said, “we are the mountain people”, or “the sheep people”. The story is usually about where they live, what they eat, what they like doing for fun, etc. things that they could all easily relate to and perceive in their day-to-day life. This is not within the sole purview of philosophy or theology, both relatively new inventions under the aegis of civilization.

Modern man has his creation story too. Except that it doesn't provide us the answers that we seek. It is alienating. It’s not coherent and comprehensive. We say the Earth is 4.54 Billion years old. OK. Great! What are we supposed to do with that piece of information? I wonder if we really need it to be accurate to two decimal places! Can someone please round it down before putting it into our textbooks? Round down a few more numbers that we have a hard time relating to, and we might be able to save a few trees, you know, those things that we actually care about? Those things that we can more readily relate to? Those things with branches that we can tie a swing to? There’s nothing wrong in knowing such facts as the age of the Earth or the age of the Universe but we've been trying to answer our fundamental existential questions in those terms and it doesn't seem to work that way.

Let’s see how the other important questions that bother us in modern times fare here… the ones related to “Who am I?” It’s almost as if a modern civilized man is playing a game of Jeopardy with an indigenous man from a Land-based tribal culture:

Modern Man: What is my purpose?
Native Man: Where are my people?
Modern Man: Where do I come from?
Native Man: Where are my people?
Modern Man: Where am I going?
Native Man: Where are my people?

So our purpose seems to be being with our people, we come from our people and we go back to our people. And while we are at it marvel at the rest of creation. Because all that too, is us, the people. It doesn't get any simpler than that. But there’s the rub. We want something more sophisticated, something said by a guru, or something printed in a book, or something that can be arrived at with logic and rationality. From first principles. These simple and unsophisticated ways of thinking might not appeal to some of us who think of human beings as nothing more than complex biological systems.

The people! The tribe! That’s the answer to all those questions. A person connected with his people in a healthy loving environment will not think to ask the question, “what’s my purpose?”. Our purpose is to be with our people, to play with them, to help them cook food, to help them heal, to bestow our unique gifts on them, to love them and to be loved by them.

As much as we ask the question, "who am I?", these days, even today when everything seems to be going so wrong, we don’t ask that question except occasionally or unless we are down and depressed. And we definitely don’t think of it when we are in the midst of doing something we really enjoy. If we’re doing something that we are loving and enjoying in the moment, that’s our purpose in that moment. And when we are not doing anything, sitting idly after a nutritious meal perhaps, our purpose is to just be, to just observe, or whatever we like doing. Ultimately, we will ask the question, “where are my people?” and go join them in doing whatever they are doing. Isn't that why you’re here reading this blog post? And that’s exactly why I am here talking about what’s on my mind. It’s tribal. And it’s good. We’re here to connect with our people. People we have something in common with. Our people.

The question “what’s my purpose” is in fact a statement that says, “I am lost and I don’t know what to do now.” Somehow, at a time when there’s no dearth of things to do, this question keeps coming up more and more. Somehow, none of the 300 TV channels or the million web sites are able to engage us for a any significant length of time. And we have the arrogance to think of pre-historic times as boring.

And that brings us to the cancer we've become. There are no easy answers to how this happened. Talking about root cause, the germ of cancer (a loss of connection and subsequent unrestrained growth) is perhaps always present. It was kept in check by people who knew how to listen for it. They controlled their own numbers and they watched and kept their land from suffering from other species’ cancerous growths. Nature does this very well on her own. But certain cultures enhanced things even more, lending a helping hand to nature. Perhaps this was our purpose too… to let nature express herself a bit more vividly and bring in a bit more variety into the world. We were great at it too. And for a long time too. But sooner or later it was meant to happen. The great unwinding began. We had plenty of warnings but we didn't listen. But perhaps this is how things work. Perhaps this is how what gets created gets destroyed. We just happen to be born at a particularly crucial time. The seed of life is ever present in death just as the seed of death is ever present in life. At some point they take root. Yin and Yang. Perhaps there is no single root cause to our problems, no single answer to "who am I?". Just many roots. And seeds that sprouted the roots. There are seeds everywhere. Seeds can be seen as nature’s way of talking about possibilities. Water a seed… and help it sprout. Take care of it and it might grow into a Redwood. There’s a seed of possibility that this human cancer that’s ravaging the planet might reverse. There’s evidence to show that cancer in human bodies sometimes goes into remission and even disappears at the very last minute. Maybe we need to water that seed a bit. We've been busy watering other kinds of trees, like the tree of the dominant culture which says certain things have got to be impossible and outside the laws of the Universe. And who decides the laws of the Universe? It’s the same dominant culture.

I previously wrote about Dr. Hern's thesis on the human cancer on the planet: how our species is behaving the way cancer in the human body does. One of the characteristics of cancer he mentions is de-differentiation. It happens when cells lose their uniqueness and start looking and behaving the same as other de-differentiated cells. Those of us who live in cities, un-moored from our people and the Land, do in fact, behave like de-differentiated cancer cells. With the dominant culture seeping through our every pore, we think we are skin-enclosed meat robots, individuals with strict boundaries, competitive animals only the fittest of who survive and are at a loss when it comes to answering the question "who am I?" to our satisfaction. Just as the liver cell loses its identity and becomes a cancer cell, just as the lung cell turns cancerous and forgets what it is, we, the mountain people, the sheep people, the Easterners, the Southerners, the Whites, the Asians, the Blacks, the Germans, the Indians, have de-differentiated in important ways, all having lost our unique creation stories that bound us to our ancestors and our lands, thrown into the urban jungle, believing in the same myths of progress, pinning our hopes on Science, losing our freedoms to the State, and all asking: WHO AM I?

Perhaps the answers we seek to existential questions are to be found through empathy… by empathizing with our ancestors, or by listening to the tribal and indigenous peoples living today or by simply meditating on the rest of creation. Perhaps there are other ways too. Let's start by asking meta-questions!


  1. Wonderful points, Satish.

    “'Where are my people?' . . . This is the question that an accident victim coming out of coma might ask."

    Oooohhhhh, so insightful. Yes. If someone coming out of a coma had a sense of identity, the next thing they would ask would be "Where is/are [someone specific]"

    Relationship. It's the thing that happens within and between two beings. I and Thou. :O)

    Within our Native traditional cultures we provide our "identity" through our tribes, our clans, and our immediate families, pretty much in that order.

    You are so correct about last names, which are a recent development in human history, only a few hundred years old. Many of those last names fall into three main categories: son-of (Tom Johnson, Judah Ben Hur); work/profession ~ Potter, Waterman, Smith, Carpenter, Wainwright, etc.; and place names that identify a landmark like a lake, a river, a valley, etc. My last name translate as "lake" in Danish, I think. One woman I once knew had an old Anglo-Saxon name that meant "of the meadow." Mary Magdalene is actually Mary of Magdala, a village, or "the Magdalene," like Jesus was "a/the Nazarene," distinguishing him from other Jesuses in a time when people didn't have last names.

    Those categories are not inclusive, and other names also evolved. "Baldwin" is old English for "bold friend." And some people just had numbers . . . like some kings.

    The ancestors have been an integral part of my life since before I remember. That's what happens when you are the first child in the fifth living generation of a family and a culture that considers that the ancestors are always with us, always protecting us, guiding us, and loving us. Or, maybe I was the first child in the fifth living generation because I already knew that, right, mo? This cause and effect thing changes all the time for me.

    1. Hi OGF,

      "Within our Native traditional cultures we provide our "identity" through our tribes, our clans, and our immediate families, pretty much in that order."

      That's fascinating... I didn't think of it until now... but it makes sense to put the tribe first, even before one's immediate family. Perhaps it comes from the realization that the tribe, or the extended family is more important than the self or the immediate extensions of the self. It's interesting that the whole order is basically reverse of what it is today: self first, significant other, children, parents, friends, other relatives, celebrities, etc. and Land somewhere at the very end if it exists at all. I wonder if Native cultures considered the sacred aspects of their land as more important than even the tribe. I'd assume something along those lines because the tribe restricted its population and footprint on the land lest it overwhelm it and fellow creatures that are also the land's children.

      Good point about last names that derive from profession. I would imagine these names arose at about the same time as those that are based on villages. Villages caused for some specialization and hence blacksmiths, carpenters, etc. Likewise specialization encouraged the formation of villages. In India, some castes are all about their profession, for instance, the barber caste.

      "a culture that considers that the ancestors are always with us, always protecting us, guiding us, and loving us"

      This is an idea that I spend a lot of time with these days. It's almost as if the ancestors never left us. They are gone from a physical standpoint but they are still around and may even visit us in dreams. Their wisdom is still accessible to us. Their stories still guide us. I also find it interesting that future generations are also thought of to already exist even if they haven't physically incarnated yet. It's the idea that future generations are watching us, and everything we're doing. They are here in spirit if not in physical form. And why not, if only talking about them or thinking of them brings them into our consciousness and makes them alive? What a beautiful way to think of the future in general, but future people in particular. Such a notion would very much encourage those who see it this way to do all they can to preserve everything they can to welcome these future people onto the land when the time is appropriate.

    2. Satish, I could be entirely wrong on this, but it is my understanding that last names like "Carpenter" etc., are quite recent, and last names as we understand them are also only about four or five hundred years old. However, in terms of speech, which is how they came into being, since most, as in a really large majority of the people were rural and illiterate, so John the carpenter was identified in conversation as John "carpenter," lower case, as opposed to John "smith," also lower case.

      I believe that the use of village to identify a person, such as I mentioned previously using the example Mary "Magdalene," was not a surname as we know it now. It was a common identifier, but not necessarily a legal one or even the only identifier, as a surname is to us now. In ancient times, of course, Mary of Magdala was only referred to as the Magdalene because she wasn't home. What did the Marys back home have to identify them if they were from there? They were all Marys of Magdala.

      I have no knowledge or education about Eastern cultures on this subject. However, one friend of mine who grew up in Hong Kong, once told me that the Chinese have only about one hundred surnames total within the population.

    3. Good realization Satish "makes sense to put the tribe first, even before one's immediate family. Perhaps it comes from the realization that the tribe, or the extended family is more important than the self or the immediate extensions of the self." Guess that's why I'm still here.

      SATISH You put so much work into your writing. You often show the skills of a statesman. Former ranger Marco is even worried you'll exhaust yourself on analysis before you learn who you are. I think many of your tribe members here are a bit older so you might remind us of that time when shocks & revelations made us question everything. Sharp review of all circles of "story" before moving forward.

      Satish, you often said you won't get too attached, even to your own ideas. If your lucky enough to have more time (9 lives) then non-attachment will possibly flow into the answer of who you really are and what truly matters. Hopefully all sorts of distant spirits will continue to commune with you. Help keep you safe. Help this planet with your evolution. Funny but enlightened self-interest points out that the best you can become is actually good for all the rest.

    4. Mark, thanks for your kind words. What I am doing is all I can do at this time. Maybe I will burn myself out. It wouldn't be the first time if that came to pass. Time will tell.


    When the night has come
    And the land is dark
    And the moon is the only light we'll see
    No, I won't be afraid
    Oh, I won't be afraid
    Just as long as you stand, stand by me

    So darling, darling
    Stand by me, oh stand by me
    Oh stand, stand by me
    Stand by me

    If the sky, that we look upon
    Should tumble and fall
    And the mountain should crumble to the sea
    I won't cry, I won't cry
    No, I won't shed a tear
    Just as long as you stand, stand by me

    And darling, darling
    Stand by me, oh stand by me
    Oh stand now, stand by me
    Stand by me

    So darling, darling
    Stand by me, oh stand by me
    Oh stand now, stand by me, stand by me
    Whenever you're in trouble won't you stand by me
    Oh stand by me, oh won't you stand now, stand
    Stand by me
    Stand by me


    If you want it, you've got it forever . . . Baby, forever, if you want it.

    1. Standing by you like guard dog pupster. Resting in the shade of your wisdom. Growing with Sabine's magic healing ferns. Creating cures. Morpho butterflies & flying fish! A great transition is already unfolding. On a MO FLOW sea of stars...make a wish.

  3. One more . . .

    Lonely rivers flow, to the sea, to the sea,
    To the open arms of the sea;
    I'll be comin' home, wait for me, wait for me
    I'll be comin' home, wait for me . .

    We are all standing together.

    I was at the grocery store a few weeks ago. A Native family of a grandmother, a young mother, and two very young children were shopping. The older boy, about three, was standing in the cart as it moved slowly along, with his arms around his grandmother's neck, and she had hers wrapped around him.

    She said to him, "We hug and walk together."

    Now, that was Truth.

  4. have to say the subject of this essay was one of the most important things (top three, easy) that happened on my path. a certain being asked me in a certain, pointed way (a way that I cannot even begin to capture in words)




    answering that question took me only about the next 25 years, and that was with the most crazy perfect head start and deep clue anyone could possibly ask for. well, it was a tough question, from a very tough questioner. anything less than the right answer was not going to cut it.

    so yeah, this whole thing is a biggie for me.


    great lyrics and songs, ogf. and that Truth sums it all up. everything.

    "This cause and effect thing changes all the time for me."

    easy breezy! you are all causes and all effects, for all time, right now.

    all the rest is just details and child's play, with meta-questions for dessert.

    1. mo flow, I was wondering how this article relates to what you have been saying. I'd still place all of the above in the essay in that innermost circle because it's mainly concerned with the relationship of the "self" to the creation around it: people, and Land (which includes all other non-human species, as I referred to it). None of this precludes the presence of non-physical realms and spirit. I think there's a beautiful complimentary synergy between all these ways of perceiving the Universe.

      My main motivation in this essay has been to question the walls put up by notions of individualism and point toward a deep yet unacknowledged connection between us and the people around us, which extends to the non-human people around us, the Land.

    2. hi Satish -

      I am not just connected to the non-humans, and the deep Land and Waters of Earth, I share in their elemental essence in a way where they are literally woven into my Energy Being, and I have been this way as long as I have been an Energy Being incarnating on Earth - from conventional human experiences of connection to all kinds of animals, birds, fish - in their world - to levels of spirit connection that are far too much my own personal experience to get into.

      my elemental connections go further than this, back in time before I was incarnating on Earth, and back in time to other planes and Worlds connected to Earth.

      as much as I have an intensely alive, active connection to the deepest, most elemental realities of the Earth plane, my existence extends much further than this, right now. Earth is only one World. there are many others. the physical plane of Earth is only one plane. there are many others. my day to day, and night to night, existence extends across all of these.

      as I mentioned, I am not part of the human cult. since I was old enough to feel, I have known this, and I have been very fortunate to have been given the knowledge of why and how that is the case, and I have grown completely through, and over, my earlier alienation.

      in many ways, though, I am far more, and intensely more, connected to non-humans than I have ever been to humans. this is just my unique reality. it was incredibly difficult to reconcile, for years, but now that I have reconciled all of these differing energies in my Being, I am probably one of the happiest, most joyful humans on the planet right now! it is truly a level of joy that should be illegal. :)

      all of my non-human friends dearly, dearly wish that all humans could also share in this joy - in the joy of our Connection, our Flowing Unbroken Link to Total Reality, and the One, that we are so wonderfully familiar with, that we just simply LIVE, all the time.

    3. "My main motivation in this essay has been to question the walls put up by notions of individualism"

      one other key thing... - and this is touched on very clearly in Behaving As If The God In All Life Mattered:
      the elemental aspects of Life all know what they are, on the most individual basis possible.

      the spirit of a particular place, or of a particular kind of Being, IS that spirit because it knows its individual nature on a sub-atomic level, on a level that goes down to the deepest levels of Reality, and then upwards to all the essential energy levels that are so critical in making up the Total Reality of that particular spirit.

      these Spirit Beings endlessly revel in their unique, individual nature. they know their gift this way is the most precious gift they have from the One, and the only thing they wish more than anything is to share that gift with other Beings and spirits in the great existence.

      but they do not have any ability to share gifts in this direct, individual way, with humans who do not have the same level of connection to their own individual Being-Power. these Spirits are Being-Power on the most real, elemental ways conceivable. we all are like that.

      but our human egos are only the thinnest shadows compared to this reality, barely even making a ripple of individuality in the larger flow of Total Reality.

      this is what I was trying to stress before when I said these connections can only be made on a Being-to-Being level. if anyone thinks they can make a true connection to a Mountain Spirit, or the Spirit of a river, for example, without having the level of awareness within themselves of where their own individual Being exists on that same level of power and Reality, just forget it. anything else is pure human ego delusion.

      that being who shattered me with the question "Who are You? made the question clear on a level that was both awesomely powerful, and completely terrifying. if I could not answer the question on the level that was necessary - with the answer coming from my individual Reality of what my being was - matching HIS level - there was no hope. I would have just remained another human shell.

      this was and is my own unique path. I only speak for myself, and truly we can all only find our answers, in our own ways. but once I accepted my Reality on the level that was necessary to answer the question, that is the only Reality I can speak from.

    4. oh, I should add that awesome and terrifying as he was, he actually spoke the words very softly. telepathically softly, very gently and straight into my heart - and without a hint of mercy.

      I was on his turf, and if I wanted to know what he knew, it was going to be entirely on his terms. there wasn't any kind of negotiation or halfway considerations possible. it was all or nothing.

    5. Hi mo,

      This IS you loud and clear. What a great comment! That's what we are, yes, deep down. There's very little I could add. It rings true with me apart from the One. Calling him/her that seems to separate him/her. Somehow, it speaks of dualism but I know that's far from your mind. What to do? We're back to inadequate language. We're back to naming and thus losing a lot of the magic.

      And we're always coming back to the same conclusion: indigenous people and witches knew/know a thing or two.

      This connection you're talking about, and it's heightened sensation (awareness) is for me also very physical. I can't stress that enough. I think that's one of the reasons why I feel so Earth-bound. You're right, this kind of connection must take place on the same level.

      But that is quite logical, in retrospect, and nor surprising because in order to "get through" to another human being, you also have to find a common level, "language". And how rare is that! That puts experiences on other levels but human into perspective.

      Here, in this comment, you made that very clear. Thanks!

    6. Hi mo flow and Sabine,

      Very interesting things... you say above.

      Considering this:
      "as much as I have an intensely alive, active connection to the deepest, most elemental realities of the Earth plane, my existence extends much further than this, right now. Earth is only one World. there are many others. the physical plane of Earth is only one plane. there are many others. my day to day, and night to night, existence extends across all of these.

      as I mentioned, I am not part of the human cult. since I was old enough to feel, I have known this, and I have been very fortunate to have been given the knowledge of why and how that is the case, and I have grown completely through, and over, my earlier alienation. "

      It seems to me that we're talking about a certain kind of consciousness where you're aware of things that are not available to most people. At least, it would seem that our culture doesn't let these kinds of consciousness make themselves known. And when I say that, I am trying to make a slight distinction between the person and his/her general/overall consciousness. i sometimes think of the process of my living as me being aware of different things at different times. The things that are on my mind these days are very different from those that were on my mind 5 years ago. The object I was obsessed with at 4:44 PM yesterday has been replaced with a different object right this moment. Sometimes, I am conscious of where I am, location-wise, in the Universe and I say to myself, "what a grand set-up that my location is this tiny spot in this tiny city, in this valley on this continent on this planet in this corner of the galaxy and so on... finally slowed down in my thoughts as I feel the vastness. Sometimes I am conscious of the journey of my life, as if I'm looking at a picture book that covers all the years.

      So, when you say you're not part of the human cult, I have to imagine you as someone or something that's not human at all. And this is not a banishment or anything for how can you banish someone who is not part of the group? I don't think our times help human beings be proud of themselves to any degree and I myself feel like a witness watching these animals do this or that all day. I feel like I am in this form only so I can be more effective being a witness. Now I can pretend that I am not watching them while I watch them and they wouldn't notice. Meanwhile, I am conscious of all these things they are not conscious of. I know most of them believe in the idea of progress while I have parted ways with it. I know many of them are cut off from creation and Land while I lament how it came about. In a way, I am them but I am also different. I am conscious of different things, slightly more "big picture" than most are while I hope more people will be more conscious, because then, things would be better. It's like a villager complaining to his people, "I see the river will flood this season and we should do something about it. If only a few more of you will see it my way, we will not lose everything". Things might even be more joyous.

      mo flow, perhaps your feeling is similar? You're conscious of other worlds and planes, instead of propaganda in US media and Scientism. It's not that you don't know what goes on on planet Earth, it's that your consciousness doesn't dwell there much, instead choosing to or being chosen to dwell in other places? It seems you're describing those other places here. And it seems I'm trying to imagine what those places might be like, and to even think of the grand setup.

    7. I am also a living breathing sailing replica of everything MO FLOW said above. Easy breezy to be all that because that is the fact of the source from which we were all created.

      I am a copy of this: "as much as I have an intensely alive, active connection to the deepest, most elemental realities of the Earth plane, my existence extends much further than this, right now. Earth is only one World. there are many others. the physical plane of Earth is only one plane. there are many others. my day to day, and night to night, existence extends across all of these."

      Sometimes being in human physical form is the hardest part. Itchy. scratchy. Coming from the infinite to get squeezed with a sneeze into an airplane seat. Propaganda in US media and Scientism. Got it on my laptop. Feel like I am in this form only so I can be more effective being a witness. I am conscious of different things, slightly more "big picture" ---- nothing bigger than Infinity that can manifest countless universes. Get comfy with the very very big picture. It's full of love and help and the wonder of why you are here at all.

    8. hi Satish -

      "It seems to me that we're talking about a certain kind of consciousness where you're aware of things that are not available to most people."

      yeah, not to beat around the bush - this is exactly it.

      "I have to imagine you as someone or something that's not human at all."

      and this, too.

      to spell it out a bit more. I have been "all the way" over. beyond any conception of an NDE experience, and fully unified with the One. that is why I am very comfortable using "the One" as a description, btw. it is very much the perfect fit.

      aside from knowing "what we all really are" - the One itself - from the inside out, at the deepest core level, I also know what I am in my Energy Being level of existence. that's the level I simply "know" I exist on, all the time, in my fullest extent.

      what this all means is my existence is multi-leveled. "human" is just one level out of several that are most important to me. so it is not that I am not human at all - quite the contrary, I feel beyond infinitely blessed to be able to experience my humanness the way I do.

      what I mean by "not a member of this human cult" is just the idea of everything that is "commonly accepted" as being human.

      I don't identify with any of these things:

      - I am mortal
      - I am susceptible to injury and illness
      - I am limited to only my human sensory modalities
      - I identify with other humans towards groups that feel like "my group" and against groups that are "not my group"

      and so on. of course, the key thing here is the "I" part of the sentence.

      the way this flips around, from what "I know":

      - I am not my human body
      - I am not identified with pain or injury or physical suffering of any kind
      - I am fully capable of all the sensory modalities that are natural to my Energy Being
      - I am One with all of my human brothers and sisters, because I know we are all from the same Source

      but again, this is just "levels." I may not identify with my pain, but when I smash my finger accidentally, I may be cursing and wincing like hell for a bit on my human animal level. however, lately I have been so non-identified with pain, this kind of thing can happen, and after treating it, I may not even feel any pain after a few minutes. this has gotten somewhat shocking to me lately, but I am accepting it as just part of things these days.

      also, although I am fully using my Energy Being level and sensory modalities all the time, my human level is usually blissfully unaware of 95% of this, and just doing whatever I need to do to pay the bills, or whatever... but this is constantly changing as well, and I have no idea where things might be in another few years.

      and yes, I am very aware of things going on on Earth, in very human ways. my consciousness dwells on things as they come, whether they are communications from "elsewhere" (as I get a lot of that these days), or a client email.

      hey Marco - "Coming from the infinite to get squeezed with a sneeze into an airplane seat." totally cracks me up!! :)

      "It's full of love and help and the wonder of why you are here at all." YES - a million zillion times yes!

    9. Sabine - you totally rock. just want you to know that!

    10. Satish -

      "i sometimes think of the process of my living as me being aware of different things at different times. The things that are on my mind these days are very different from those that were on my mind 5 years ago."

      this really is all there is. it is only a question of what you are aware of, what you remember, and how these work for you.

      except for the state of total union - where all "I am" ceases - there isn't anything else. whenever you are conscious of "being yourself" on any level, from totally involved human to totally involved Energy Being, it is different places, and different experiences, in the "being aware of different things" stream...

  5. Satish,

    Again, what an insightful essay. And you must write as many as you can, feel inspired too, about anything that you feel is important.

    "Who am I? What is my purpose?

    You're so right to identify these questions as very modern and Western, which people seem to think are fundamental. I've never quite got that. To me it's always been a bit of navel-gazing. Sorry, that sounds flippant, it's not supposed to. I really like the way you developed this by asking mega-questions. The way you combine logical development, true insight and knowledge, intuition and information. That's a gift.

    "Where are my people?"
    That connects me to my roots, my ancestral line, just like many people are still connected now, in other parts of the world.

    My maiden name is "Lohmann". "loh" in old Northern German dialect (low German) is a woodland near dwellings and "Mann" is man (you probably know). Therefore my ancestors were men of the woods, wood dwellers, people who worked with wood in the wood etc.
    The Anglo-Saxon is "ley", very similar. Where I come from in Germany, was old Saxon country. The Saxons that settled England. I've always been attracted by woodland and forests. I couldn't live without trees around me. I think they help keep me sane. That's why we chose to live in Hampshire when we moved to the country from London in 1984. Hampshire is the most densely wooded county in England.

    There's more wood connection in my life. I was born and brought up in a small town in Germany called Gütersloh. "Güt" is a family name, the name of a rich farming family. Therefore, Gütersloh means "Güt's Wood". And now I live in Kingsley which means King's Wood (King John's Wood, we still have a church with foundations going back to his reign). King John and Robin Hood. Everybody knows that "baddie" king because of that connection.
    So a lowly woodman (woman) started off living in a place named after a rich farmer's wood and went up in the world to a King's Wood! I can't complain!

    I had not thought about these connections for a long time but your essay made them surface, and I enjoyed thinking about it.

    This part of Germany, where I come from, is called Westphalia, and it's full of surnames which can only be associated with that part of the world, including the notorious name Rumsfeld. Yes, his roots are there too.
    Most of the German surnames ending in "feld" (field) come from Westphalia. This area is also famous for the Teutonen and the Cherusker, the "notorious" Germanic tribes which gave the Romans so many head aches and were described as uncivilised barbarians in Tacitus' Germania. Their territories were never conquered by the Roman empire. Right up until my grandfather's youth (he was born in 1878), the people in our area were proud of having kept their independence from the Romans. Ancestral memories, history not forgotten. How quickly did it change.....

    I know all these things and much more from my grandfather, my father's father in whose house we lived. He was a great storyteller and a "repository" of local history and language. The older I get, the more vividly I remember him and my lovely grandmother. I was blessed.

    1. Lovely post, Sabine.

    2. seconded! a very lovely post. I think how names work is very fascinating as well.

      "Where are my people?" - this is where the answer is! knowing this answer, and living it, is what it is all about.

    3. Hi Sabine, glad to hear you enjoyed thinking about your ancestry and roots. I've heard of the "Peace of Westphalia", the treaty that ended a long war. I don't know much else about it though.

      "So a lowly woodman (woman) started off living in a place named after a rich farmer's wood and went up in the world to a King's Wood! I can't complain!"

      These are exactly the kinds of connections I like making :) Charting the course of my life through the years has been revelatory as I put together a picture of how the events in my life correspond to the larger events and trends in history. I recently discovered that the high school I attended in India was established by the Montfort Brothers of St. Gabriel, a religious institute rooted in France!

      "Hampshire is the most densely wooded county in England."

      I can see the lush greenery in my mind's eye!

    4. Inspired by both OGF & Sabine who help us appreciate earthy ancestors. My father who served many years in congress was born in Austin the capitol of Texas. However, his father is actually Augustine. As in St. Augustine. But when my Grandfather & his young Mexican wife Anna crossed the Rio Grande into Texas they became Austin....maybe my dad's last name should have become Tucson when his parents moved there to clean & cook at the El Conquistador hotel.

      When my Dad was 19 the Tyndal Airforce base in Tucson was barely a dusty landing field & Quonset hut. But when he returned from California flight training as Air Man of the Year the Titan Missile silo was waiting with ominous orders. The night after his honeymoon my father sat in that silo. A nation that once feared nuclear war held it's breath with President Kennedy for 6 days that October. Now that big red button of extinction is a cyber hack away from launch. No longer a person at the switch. No longer does it matter much to the public. Even our President's picks for the March Madness basketball score are of greater concern.

      Grandma ANNA was not a Mexican. Her heritage was Mayan & Olmec. But in Arizona everyone from south of the boarder is Mexican. Not until some people got interested in the Mayan Calender did quiet little Anna have something to whisper. Great cycles, a blue star & sky spirits were part of here dying tale. Who listened? Who cared? We have text & tube...A true ancestor of ancient Mayans died in silence exactly on 1-21 of the year she whispered....2012...the beginning of the end. Where nothing much happens. Turn away. Slip away. The old world will not even exist in the next cycle. Invisible waves carry many busy voices then fade off into blue.

    5. "The old world will not even exist in the next cycle." Can't wait for that.

  6. That was a very interesting read Satish. If i'm honest, I havent ever asked any of those questions of myself. I have no purpose other than to be here. I am me. I am not going anywhere. Those questions I think (as you point out) come up because of a separatedness between a person and the Land. I'm not saying that i'm not separated (almost everyone is within the modern cage), it's just that I see them as enabling more detachment; a sort of observer effect of questioning rather than a participatory effect. The one question that does dog me is , "where do I belong?" If that can ever be answered realistically in this culture I will then know that I'm home. That will be somewhere on or within this Earth. The ancestors dwell within the Earth and I believe that everyone has their own "spot" that they resonate with and hence belong. I feel that where I am now is pretty close; it is certainly within this island.

    Re: surnames. My understanding of how they came about in Britain is linked to the state and the financial system. It's is simple yet veiled in ignorance. to serve legal (as opposed to Lawful) documents in the UK one must serve it on "the person". "The Person" is a legal entity as opposed to a flesh and blood being and can only be addressed with a legal title such as "Mrs", "Mr", "Miss", "Sir" and so on. A forename is the designation of a living breathing soul who is not bound my man made legislation so "stand above it" ie does NOT understand legalese. A living breathing soul is only bound by Common Law as defined in the Magna Carta Treaty. In effect, a surname designates a fictional strawman. I engaged in some shenanigans with this a few years ago and it worked. The designation one uses to make it clear that you dont stand under the so called "laws" of men is by making it clear that you are not a person but a living soul, thus:

    John: of the Smith family
    The fictional person is obviously Mr. John Smith

    Probably confused you all now as my explanation is far from perfect. Basically, the forename is the real self!
    I think perhaps the culture of naming was far more important than it is now amongst our ancestors and current tribal people-perhaps very often a period of time was left, maybe a few years, before someones name became obvious to ones tribe. That would then anchor that being (not person ;) to the Land and it's other inhabitants.
    Random bits and bobs from me!

    1. Hi Red Fox

      I'm slowly progressing with the Boyle money-less book. And (snob that I am) I find it surprisingly well written and deep. Thanks again for the reference. I'll keep plugging away at it.

    2. Hi red fox,

      " The one question that does dog me is , "where do I belong?""

      I have been content with the knowledge that I have lost connection with the Land. But your question above as well as your quest to find a specific place, in terms of a physical space on Earth, makes me wonder if I have a long-lost connection to such a real physical space on Earth as well. I will be thinking about this.

      You make an interesting distinction between the observer effect and the participatory effect. I have preferred the observer model so far as a way to make sense of what's going on. Sabine talks about being a witness too and I relate to her. But really, I can never be a pure observer. I am constantly participating in the situations I am observing and hence there is no such thing as pure unadulterated objective and unbiased observation. I don't want such an observation either. I'm OK with being a participant. I continue to participate but I prefer the fly-on-the-wall kind of participation for now. Perhaps this will change in the future.

      Considering the state of the world these days, some amount of detachment may be necessary for peace of mind. But I am still squarely in that innermost circle so far even as I try to build a bridge to the outer circles so I can occasionally visit them. Perhaps there is no such thing as detachment and there are no circles other than the innermost. When I attempt to empathize with our ancestors, I can't help but think that there was only one circle for them and it included all that they considered "real" in creation. In fact, the notion of the circles doesn't even apply to them because there is no "self" at the center to begin with. For all we know, certain ancient tribal people in certain cultures somewhere in the world might have thought of themselves as little more than lice on the back of a giant beast. I hold that view in my consciousness, however stupid, superstitious, and outdated it might seem to us in modern times, because it might reveal something that might otherwise lie obscured to my modern eyes.

      Interesting history about names there! It's funny how our names exist as a convenience to others, sometimes people who don't know us very well, as in the case of the State benefiting the most from our names. It's said that some Native Americans objected to their being photographed. I can imagine a time when people objected to being named. Being named does subtract something. Hard to say exactly what. It's a bit eerie :)

    3. Hi Satish,

      I'm pleased to read more of your thoughts on "belonging", and all of them ring true with me. Like you, I think that it's very difficult even to attempt imagining yourself back and back and back..... into our ancient ancestors, our past. Yet, I try to do this a lot more than ever before.

      Your description of "only one circle" for them, or maybe no circle at all "because there is no "self" at the centre to begin with, seems of great importance, and that's why it's so difficult to "grasp", to "get". It's so alien to us moderns. That's how far we've "strayed". The layers that make up our modern individual "selves" seem to thick to penetrate. Yet I try, and you do, and so does Red Fox. When I try to imagine this "original non-self" (I have to call it something), it's always just Earth-bound. I never imagine it to have any other origin. My body/mind/soul never strays. But try as I might, the "self" always intrudes. This original non-self (not Robin Dattas non-self, save me his musings!) is very illusive but it's there, still lurking in our body/mind/souls. A clumsy description. but I have to try.
      The separation from this "original" way of being didn't come until much later, we know that. Therefore, when I try to imagine this "state" or "process", any notion of a wider involvement, split off and named (gods, spirit, heaven, universe etc: some of the "layers") have to be banished from my mind. This is not easy but I have a feeling that you're trying a similar route, as is Red Fox.
      But because of this process of immersion, in reality, you can never be just a witness, let alone a pure observer. I've never been able to manage the latter and always thought of it as cold-hearted...or maybe I'm just too soft-hearted. And you are right, there is no such thing as pure, unadulterated, objective and unbiased observation. Orthodox scientists are just kidding themselves, but this kind of "rational" thinking still rules our world.

      Your mentioning about Native Americans not wanting to be photographed: I've read that about other tribal communities too, including Africans. And I absolutely agree with you in feeling that this (and naming) can be/is subtracting something quite possible vital. I'm spinning it out a bit more. It's not eerie when you consider that our society does exactly the opposite. It's all about putting it out there NOW, projecting a phoney self(ie), even on "sticks"....leaving empty, smiley shells. What a monstrous metaphor, I think that's pretty eerie.

      Didn't the Native Americans say that it robbed you of your soul? Well, if they did, they were right there too. The evidence is all around for us to see. Empty shells of people that can be "filled", manipulated by anybody, any agengy; "filled up" with any kind of junk. And the people/shells swallow it.

      And this process is increasing mind-boggling speed. At least it seems like that to me.

      At this "stage" of my life, I do a lot of witnessing because participation, the way I would like it to be, is often impossible. More of that later.

      We've had a very stormy weather with extreme gusts all day long. It's still whistling round the houses, bending the trees but "here comes the sun". (I'm singing that! and stormy weather!)

    4. A few typing mistakes there. I had written a lot more and had to edit it to make it fit. I was too hasty, it seems.

      When I mention "witnessing" I mean humans and their actions. As soon as I get out into my garden and the wider landscape, I automatically participate. At least I like to think so....

    5. Hi Sabine,

      Yes, they did say photos steal their souls.

      "The separation from this "original" way of being didn't come until much later, we know that. Therefore, when I try to imagine this "state" or "process", any notion of a wider involvement, split off and named (gods, spirit, heaven, universe etc: some of the "layers") have to be banished from my mind. This is not easy but I have a feeling that you're trying a similar route, as is Red Fox."

      It's indeed difficult to not feel separate even though at some level, we can see that it's all a connected singular phenomenon. It's as if us having 10 fingers sets us off on a path of counting things, figuratively speaking. But the fact that we're born into human bodies and speak languages predispose us to feel a certain level of separation which upon closer examination might disappear. Or with continued practice, like I understand your life experience has been, you see it more and more and easily. I try to meditate and it does give me access to certain things that I otherwise miss in daily life.

      "The evidence is all around for us to see. Empty shells of people that can be "filled", manipulated by anybody, any agengy; "filled up" with any kind of junk. And the people/shells swallow it."

      I see that too. I notice it all around me. Our libraries are full of books but our brains are empty. We've not only largely lost the ability to listen but we're encouraged to ignore our gut feeling. Consider the following line from a new book by the head of Google HR:

      "Don't trust your gut: use data to predict and shape the future"... from a description of the book here

      The head of "People Operations" at one of the largest and most modern of companies, a darling of modern civilization, is telling his compatriots to ignore their guts!

      Every time I notice something that is a "only happens these days" phenomenon, like the above, I can't help but ask myself: perhaps this is how cancer plays out toward the end... with utter disconnection from reality.

  7. Great writing as always, Satish!

    "Our purpose is to be with our people, to play with them, to help them cook food, to help them heal, to bestow our unique gifts on them, to love them and to be loved by them."
    And to inspire.

    "We’re here to connect with our people."
    Connections have been made :)

    1. Connections have been made, E-man! Thank you for the inspiration. Accepted wholeheartedly!

  8. Different subject. A view of the universe by a Zen master, but one seemingly defined by the "scientific" outlook?

  9. My apologies for this perhaps tired revisiting of seeming "hopium." It's more a case of stopping and rechecking something that might have been missed. Whether it really IS practical is not the point. It is more of a thought experiment than anything.

    What if a critical mass of people thought in rational terms? And assuming that we're all running downhill followed by an enormous boulder, getting out of the boulder's path would be a primary concern. But if there were unnecessary barriers to escaping the boulder's path or even diverting the boulder's trajectory (and there was time) we might wish to remove them with all due haste.

    One major barrier is peak everything, Another is the relative global inaction to revegetate the planet.

    Peak everything suggests that there is no case to be made for building anything. The materials to build more civilizational infrastructure have all virtually run out, and we can assume that whatever gets built in industrial society involves peak injustice also. Also assumed is that capitalism, the profit motive, disconnection from the land, need to immediately give way to a critical-mass gift economy and/or critical-mass altruism and cooperation and/or critical mass systems thinking.

    Does all/any of this bypass the question of where we come from?, or who are our people?

    1. Hi Artleads,

      Peak injustice indeed! Well said! Peak inequality and peak suffering too perhaps. Suicide is now the fourth leading cause of death among the middle-aged in the US.

      It seems to me that you're asking what needs to be done now. Or what could be done now. You're proposing ideas. Mark has some ideas too, we know. A related question is "why have the things we have been trying so far been such dismal failures, taking us not away from our predicament, but closer to it?" I think there is a place for both these types of questions to co-exist.

      I'm curious where the global inaction that you refer to comes from. We feel dis-empowered at some level. We perceive a certain lack of effectiveness around the good things we do. We're beat. I'm curious what went wrong. And the inquiry is taking me into the kinds of things mentioned in the essay.

      Reminder to "select all" and "copy" before clicking the Publish button. Preview button seems to be a tricky one.

    2. "the tribe, or the extended family is more important than the self or the immediate extensions of the self. It's interesting that the whole order is basically reverse of what it is today: self first, significant other, children, parents, friends, other relatives, celebrities, etc. and Land somewhere at the very end if it exists at all. I wonder if Native cultures considered the sacred aspects of their land as more important than even the tribe. I'd assume something along those lines because the tribe restricted its population and footprint on the land lest it overwhelm it and fellow creatures that are also the land's children."

      Thanks for this fine analysis. What you say rings a bell. First things first. And land is the first thing, followed by "our people." I like the way you say civilization has reversed this logical order. Infanticide to preserve the tribe wouldn't be shocking under such circumstances. But look at the hubbub over abortion today.

      It just struck me as we walked this morning that my village is a sort of microcosm of my county. The county is surrounded/"supported" by large mountain ranges. My village is closely surrounded by hills which have a highly nestling and nurturing effect. The complex play of light is ever shifting. Behind the hills here and there are glimpses of distant mountain that contrast in color and texture to the nearby hills. The hills had formerly been mined for coal, and the effects of that mining, though softened with time, are profoundly while subtly imprinted on the land. That older mining story now must be integrated with the story of beauty and nurture...

      I think I belong to this landscape, for it has now become a bowl that contains interesting little houses that bespeak the place history, and independent, educated people who wish to protect its quirky, iconoclastic character. The "containment" character of the physical landscape becomes a metaphor for the containment of a special breed of people and animals. Dogs run free here more than in other places. And some dogs are highly evolved, like sages that you want to learn from.


      I ate a hard boiled egg out on the porch this morning, having noted previously the fly where I rest my plate. No flies pestered me as I ate, but I was certain they'd come for crumbs I deliberately left them. And they came, visible through the window. Two of them. I had imagined how benign they would be in terms of not scattering the egg shells about and making a mess, as any mammal would do. There was something to be said for flies, after all. The two flies circled around wildly. Ah, they were fighting for rights to the food! The vanquished parked off to the side, while the victor scurried about among the shells. Silly flies. There was enough there for the two of them.

    3. I love your description above about your morning, the egg, and the flies, Artleads. When I see you describe your world, I feel like I learn about both you and your world in a way I never could if you were describing yourself.

      You and Sabine both have given me a little magic and wonder in this thread. Thank you so much!

    4. very much seconded. the "moments of experience" that you have been describing here more and more lately, Artleads, totally transport me into those feelings, and into your experience. I can almost recall that early childhood memory you related of the feeling of the dog's fur, and dog's collar, as if I had had the experience myself!

    5. Thank you, sweet people, for the kind words. I had hesitated to report on my morning. It would take too long. I didn't feel up to it. But I decided that doing something, however sketchy, would beat doing nothing. 90% of the time, I do nothing.

    6. Hi Satish,

      "It seems to me that you're asking what needs to be done now. Or what could be done now. You're proposing ideas."

      It's like what we've been discussing here. The ideas attach themselves to me. I'm not really TRYING to think of things to do. I'm fulfilling my "program," so to speak. And that program is unbelievably clear, coherent and congruous. (It's odd that a dreamer with a fuzzy mind and low self-confidence gets charged with this role!)

      The flip side of this "vision" is, why has nothing been done? It's too simple, I suspect. It is also based on aesthetics and intuition, neither of which feature strongly in IC. Its nexus is the third world, another damper for a society dead set on civilization and "progress." If there is some practical "explanation" for my understanding (partial and needing others' as it is) it's that I was left entirely alone for most of my childhood, where all I did was imagine. Most of what has been done so far is first-world and left-brain oriented, which are disqualifiers for understanding or solving anything essential.

      In a nutshell, and as a very partial theory, we need to:

      - think of the planet as a cohesive whole, without conceptually "splitting it up."

      - consider the central role of paradox.

      - use what is already here that is useful--anything, nations, dirty scary energy even.

      - exchange behavior like the flies', who war over food that could serve everyone, for cooperative strategies.

      - revegetate the planet--as many plants as feasible and applicable, everywhere.

      - begin wherever there is an opening.

      - consider that the only significant evil is the destruction of the land.

      - do what we love.

      - consider that everybody can and must grow food, even sprouts on city windows.

      - think backwards on what is the net environmental and human cost of whatever is produced.

      - practice extreme conservation and preservation (nature and culture?)

      - concentrate human population in cities.

      - reforest cities, with an emphasis on serving human needs.

      - leave wild places alone.

      - develop nothing on open land.

      - abandon inessentials--classism, racism, sexism, ageism, able-ism, homophobia, etc.

      - educate all children to be self-sufficient, and globally and locally ethical.

      - refrain from distraction.

      - consider as primary the defense of life from forces of death.

      - consider our era as one of triage.

      - keep things simple, but leave room for the complicated and overdeveloped.

      - using what is already here, visualize the world as small, networked units of governance (people in villages, or neighborhoods, etc.. ideally not more than 300 per group).

      There is, of course, much that would need to be corrected, added or replaced. My entire way of thinking might be questioned as radically unsuitable. But this will have to do till something better comes along. And everything I've listed depends, pretty much, on the ascendency of an alternative economic and social order. Much of what I recommend needn't wait for that, and might help to bring it about.


      I really get into places when I can see them. Maybe you're like that too. We could exchange place photos? Maybe through Batter Up? I have a point-and-shoot disposable camera to take in that has some landscape scenes on it. Will take it into develop ASAP.

    7. If my list gets close to having some validity, it also needs more analysis than I can supply. It mixes apples and oranges (and other fruit) and that requires correction.

      I also left out one of the most important items/principles:

      - land use planning must be centered on watershed planning.

    8. I see that the need to clarify is great. So thanks to Satish for getting me to dig a bit.

      I'm talking about the end of endeavor. It's a different but sincere take on Guy McPhersons, "it's over."

      It's about the empty spaces between what has and is being done. It's about Yin (feminist?) energy cleaning up and healing what the fierce onslaught of Yang energy has wrought. It's about relaxation, and so favoring effortless ways to function.

      So we stop. We clean up. We repair. We take the path of least resistance...

      So huge correction must be given to the appearance of a laundry list. There should be a principle at work here. We're not so much about starting anything new as about bringing together and optimizing what is here already.

      Mark will do as he sees fit. He may well be right. I only wish to offer the prospect that a technology which might better be used to handle the nukes is a human and social technology--setting up the human fail-safe system to monitor and safeguard the plants in perpetuity.

      The problem with large and expensive outlays of technical fixes is that the industrial system to enable them is running on empty. I see us as being in triage, needing bandages and tourniquets. The entire global system is shot in every way. Ours is a holding action, stopping the hemorrhage...

      It's not what we do; it's how we do it.

    9. Just looked at an installment of the Bletchley Circle TV series on PBS--women code-breakers during the war, bored with their post-war (re)domestication, get together to solve a series of crimes. I feel that we here are a little like them. Each person has a unique contribution to make to the code-breaking of modern society.

      Edgewood is a budding city (whether or not yet incorporated as a city) in my county. Unlike my village, it is not nestled by hills or away from a major freeway. The remains of the old ranching landscape are still there, so spread out that it seems a waste of land. The wildness has been removed, but the urban concentration to make it something different is missing. All that strikes me is waste. In the center of town, there is a Subway, a Wells Fargo Banks, a McDonalds... What's the code there? How does body language and psychological trance change from the ranch landscape to the air conditioned ice cream joint? What are the expectations of civilization? Cops, ambulances, sidewalks, a certain reliable "order... " This is complicated stuff, for which Ph Ds might be awarded. Having something to do with semiotics--signs, signifiers (a subject I'm slightly familiar with but without a firm grasp thereof). Roland Barthes' Mythologies is the most understandable (since it is poetic and literary) way I've found to vaguely access semiotics.

      I used to see the same landscape phenomenon around Stockton in CA, but it's everywhere. America's vast horizons have been used badly by the ranchers, but much worse by McWorld development.

  10. Artleads,

    Where you live sounds really lovely. Would you put in on the map for me? But only if you want to.
    Because I'm intrigued...

    I love your fly story.

  11. Just a couple of thoughts. I had forgotten about the "soul stealing" that worries some indigenous people. I believe it is a quite widespread feeling from what I seem to remember.
    Re: the Land. I think it is the case or was, amongst The Australian people that the worst possible thing that could happen to you was to be ostracised from Land and clan. It was looked upon as certain death. In fact, I think it is true to say that amongst the Australians, death did occur to some people because they believed it would. Pretty much similar to how real witchcraft works when working with malefica; if someone knows and believes the "evil eye" has been cast it is likely to work-sort of placebo in reverse as it were!

    Sabine, it was mental here about 2 hours ago. There was a brief mega squall washed over us-the worst I have known. It blew 3 trees down on our caravan/trailer site and demolished an awning. My van felt like it was going to do an impression of a hovercraft. I dont know what speed the gust was but it felt like a force 10+ for some moments. Slightly calmer now but still gusty. I did a brief thanks to the air, earth and tree people for sparing us (1 tree came down on an old couples trailer but no damage- I just sawed it in two to get it off. Nature bats last...and first!

  12. Artleads,
    Glad youre getting into the Mark Boyle book. His first book, "The Moneyless Man" is a more personal read of how he came to do it and how he coped. Unfortunately it's only available as a hard copy but very worthwhile getting hold of if you can. There are plenty of his videos/interviews on youtube also if youre interested :)

  13. Red Fox,

    I give thanks the air, earth and tree people too, the ones that are forgotten by most, and I think about them when they are while it's happening and at other times...
    When you mentioned your caravan/hovercraft moment, I had to think of the three little piggies and the wolf. I live in a very solidly built brick house. I'm glad you're safe. What a lucky piggy I am. :) I shall think of you the next time anything is forecast and send me best thoughts over to you in the fenns.


    You give me plenty magic and wonder here too. I really appreciate the way you phrased that! We're all reciprocating the only way we can with this medium. Let's continue for as long as possible. Blessings to you all!

  14. Ferns in the shadow of an old growth tree. The magic of cures growing & flowing from places we least expect them. Mass consciousness chased by a boulder - will they make a quantum leap? Diving way below the thin layer at the top of the hurricane...a galaxy spinning, a sea of tranquility floating in the vast vast vast expanding universe. The tribe knows Earth is here...but just across this Milky Way our entire solar system is actually undetectable. Across our galaxy our home ports and lands of origin - everything including Earth - the entire revolving, evolving story simply does not exist in a circles not so far way. So what does it mean to know we are really here - yet - also in true space terms we are not.

    The tiny bug on Satish dish gave him food for thought...LOVE LOVE LOVE reading & feeling connected to ya'll. Voyaging, evolving, solving where we are going. Growing. Some learning all they can. Will we leave only footprints behind?

    The pool game grew! Over twenty kids in the Coconut Grove marina swimming pool playing morph frog today. An element of competition entered the game when they shouted for me to judge their unique qualities. Undoubtedly the mass brainwashing of children returning to forms of competition is beyond my scope of creating a group effort.

    ARTLEADS - your animal spirits protected me Friday flying from DCA to MIA!!! Getting dry & ready to fly back up up & away across the sky with my invisible zoo tonight. I think one of the spirit animals is a wise Red Fox knowing we're going nowhere, sailing around on an undetectable planet that can not even be seen in human terms from further vantage points across a sea of stars.

  15. Posted by Wester on NBL today:

    Does Civilisation Mean Insanity And Violence? By Sukumaran C. V.

    [i]…”When we were returning to the office for staying at night, we saw hares and deer darting away from the light of our vehicle and I thought that we are encroaching into their freedom. We are depriving of their freedom to walk freely even at night. Those estates, those roads fragmenting the forests, those electric posts, those offices should be shut down and all the people who live in the forest areas should be driven out and the animals should be given the freedom to wander through day and night without fearing the humans and their vehicles and their electric lines and their roads.”[/i]

    1. Great article. Thanks for posting this, Artleads. I visited Kerala, a small state in Southern India, where is based. This really nails it for me:

      "Often I was tempted to talk in favour of the animals and the forest cover. But I preferred my safety to the rights of the animals and the forests. It was selfishness and this same selfishness of the humans is called ‘civilization’ and this civilisation is killing the planet where we live."

      I hereby declare myself to be "selfish and civilized" and that's a reason why we're going extinct. Another gem:

      "The irony is that instead of annihilating the present development mania which creates an atmosphere in which humans are plagued with ailments and illnesses; we construct super specialty hospitals augmenting the pathetic condition to which our development has driven us."

    2. "I hereby declare myself to be "selfish and civilized" and that's a reason why we're going extinct."

      I declare myself selfish too. Going extinct? Not so sure. This might well be where self knowledge creates miracle.

    3. I actually wish a few bands of uncontacted tribes will survive here and there. So it won't technically be an extinction. It's our mutated sub-species that will be going extinct :)

      Is that how you see it, Artleads?

  16. Hi Artleads,

    That's a great list of things we can do now. I think some of them especially stand out: working in small local groups, as you said:

    "using what is already here, visualize the world as small, networked units of governance (people in villages, or neighborhoods, etc.. ideally not more than 300 per group). "

    Here's the monkey wrench that I will throw in since you said we all have a gift (and I believe that):

    "Each person has a unique contribution to make to the code-breaking of modern society."

    You're making it quite interesting and challenging when you say "code-breaking of modern society" :) Perhaps my gift is to do just that. And part of it is understanding why so many well-intentioned things have failed for so long! Or at least one factor in that puzzle. Could it be that the world is too centralized now and power resides in a small fraction of the species that what gets done is now fairly well controlled and managed by those few?

    I keep wondering how many times the world (or significant chunks of it) has come close to falling under the control of just one person or one ruling family. Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, etc. It's highly unlikely that the world of today works in a stochastic manner. It's controlled from the top down. Through the world-wide banking infrastructure. Richard Wolff, author of "Democracy at Work" asks a really interesting question that made me think. He said, "how is it that we think and believe in democracy, that we say we live in a democratic country, and yet, when it comes to the place where we spend the longest hours, and really, most of our life, the workplace, it's anything but democratic?" It's instead hierarchical. And I think that's also the case in society at large. It's hierarchical and there's an apex that controls what gets done. So if the glaciers are melting, it's because the apex couldn't care less. If there's grinding poverty, it's because the apex couldn't care less. If suicide is now the fourth largest cause of suicide among middle-aged Americans, it's because the apex couldn't care less. If our water and air are polluted, it's because the apex couldn't care less. In fact, the apex is worried about coming up with a business plan to profit off of all these trends before Monday morning.

    Civilization is built upon a large number of people doing the bidding of a few, being controlled economically, culturally, intellectually, and emotionally, by the few. Is there a way around this?

    1. "Each person has a unique contribution to make to the code-breaking of modern society."

      This strikes me as a giant leap into anarchy, and it is a corollary of what you say re Richard Wolf and democracy. At a couple recent community meetings, something like that struck me (funny how we are exhibiting that Sheldrakian "field knowledge" behavior). People were trying to come up with "better" organizational structure. If we just think it through better, come up with better rules, all might be well. So, how come all is not well? So, how come all keeps getting worse? The answer struck me with great intensity: Hang the rules. Base organizational "structure" on the individual! Trust everybody. We were only there because we shared major values. Why not build the organization around each individual's passion, and collectively help that passion to bloom. But more later.

      A little voice advised me to slow down. It seemed so pointless and trivial at the time. But when I woke up this morning, it became deeper and clearer in meaning. I wasn't just about me. "I" was spread as far as my consciousness would allow, or that seemed to fit an inner (aesthetic?) prerogative. But more on that later. Some of it concerns my best friend in high school, people who live in southern England, and people who are 66.

      "You're making it quite interesting and challenging when you say 'code-breaking of modern society' :) Perhaps my gift is to do just that. And part of it is understanding why so many well-intentioned things have failed for so long! Or at least one factor in that puzzle. Could it be that the world is too centralized now and power resides in a small fraction of the species that what gets done is now fairly well controlled and managed by those few?"

      Yes to all of this (AFAICS). Which is what brings us to this blog. :-)

    2. Hi Satish

      You said "There's a great list of things we can do now..........working in small local groups.

      My own experience with that is no all that encouraging but yes, in principle this is how things must develop if there is to be a chance at all. I'm not optimistic. Here's why from my experience.

      For instance, I really would like to pass on some of my skills and experience to other people, for free, even without any hope of reciprocation. I really mean that. Consequently I try. Here are two examples:

      I have many years of experience collecting plants and fungi as well as growing edible and medicinal herbs in my garden. I concentrate on native ones apart from species, many from Southern Europe, which shouldn't be missed out. Many of them are naturalizing anyway (climate change), like fennel.
      I've tried and tested all my herbs and fungi, ways of preserving and storing them and when to pick them. For instance, leaves should be picked during the day, preferably when it's sunny because the essential oils will be more powerful. Roots should only be picked in deep shade, preferably at night. That's were the nights of the full moon come in. You can see where European witches/herb women got their (bad) reputation. Roots lose power when exposed to bright light. Quite logical really once you think about it.

      I'd love to pass on some of this knowledge. I've suggested foraging walks locally, here around our village but nobody's interested, even though "foraging" is all the rage.
      Another thing I'm fairly good at is cooking. We have a good village hall/centre here with a well-equipped kitchen. We also have quite a few young women who don't know how to cook. You can usually tell just by looking at them, something about a certain fullness of body which tells you that for them and their children junk food is the order of the day.
      I could teach basic skills, how to be "imaginative" with ingredients, how to make food tasty and how not to waste anything and save money.

      Thinking last year that this would be a good idea, I advertised in our village centre (there's also a little shop/store) to see whether there was interest. Not one person replied! My husband who is a little cynical about things like this said "I told you so".
      These are two really good practical skills I have. I would love to share them here, locally, with what should be my community.....but nobody's interested.
      I suspect that the people don't see themselves as needing skills like this, they are already too removed for connecting with real life. Maybe when things get really tough, who what to do? I'm not a person who wants to "jolly" people along to play community games. This is happening already. The English middle classes are jolly good at that. Maybe it's because I'm an outsider. Don't get me wrong, everybody seems to like me but I'm still an outsider, somebody who is different.

      I doesn't worry me but I think it's a shame as there's so little time left. So I just carry on doing what I can for my small immediate circle of life which, to my delight, is thriving.

      Just a quick intuitive thought on Paul Cherfurka:
      My very narrow female impression of him is one of control. He's contributed on NBL on and off for some time. Since he first came, he's mellowed a little but I get the impression that he can't go much further. In spite of his eloquent writing, I see a very different person, a very controlling man between the lines I find him navel-gazing, lacking real insight, when compared to you and the other men here. Will he ever get over that? I doubt it. But that's just me.
      OGF, do you get similar feelings, vibes from him? Your opinion would be interesting but only if you don't mind giving it. If you don't, I understand.

      I know this is gossiping but I just had to say it.

    3. Well thank God you are here. Exposing roots of junk food culture to the light of common sense. I'd be right at your kitchen learning everything healthy. If someone gets cancer or whatever you could teach so much if they wanted to live, grow be more than the diet of what they were. Maybe it is our energy that simply does not match with all the current people transfixed by apps. Then again everything you know is not yet lost. Maybe it will just come knocking. Patience in those preserves. I remember months ago when you wrote about babies (forgetting) not knowing how to swallow. So basic to survival lost in one generation of soft baby food. As others have complimented you on NBL. SABINE you have touched so many with your words. There is no recipe for another you. I can't say much right but Satish did notice my memory. I will remember your magic. Healing Ferns grow, even in shadows, I pray every atom of you is transported to the garden of knowledge. You have no idea how much you are truly loved & appreciated...but a distant star is shining especially for you. Just gotta clear these clouds with a silver iodide lining. Sweet, smart, flowering Sabine: " just carry on doing what I can for my small immediate circle of life which, to my delight, is thriving."

    4. Sabine,

      I second Mark's admonition to keep your dream alive. Is there a local paper that you can write in about your passions? Or what about just printing some posters/fliers that have pictures and are easy to read, then posting them on public notice boards, or even on lamp posts? Include your contact information. It may take a year, but someone will notice. Maybe many will but won't give any indication of it. Then, whoosh, something shifts suddenly like a tectonic fault. I really don't believe you can fail.


      "Some of it concerns my best friend in high school, people who live in southern England, and people who are 66."

      My best friend in high school lives in southern England. His wife, like Sabine, is 66. My wife, like them both, is 66. Quite a bit younger than me. Both Red Fox and Sabine live in southern England. Coincidence or not, I take it all to mean something.


      The principal/founder of my high school was a Scotsman, a man of great learning and idealism. He spent time in Germany in the 1930s. My best friend remember the story differently from me, although I'll bet his is the correct version. He thinks it was told us at the dinner table, for Mr. D and all the teachers ate with the students, and this could have been when both of us were assigned to the principal's table. I thought, to the contrary, that Mr. D recounted the story at one of the sermons he gave the entire student body each morning. It was about an experience in Germany, when he got caught up in a crowd listening to (perhaps) Hitler speak. The frenzy of the crowd was hypnotic. I'm not sure he could bare to repeat his precise reaction. My impression is that he, too, gave the familiar salute and cheer., Somehow, he dragged himself away, a shaken man. The lessen to us boys was clear. It could have happened to us. This was the kind of teaching that gave us a base of understanding that all too many lack.

    5. Hi Sabine,

      I didn't know that about leaves and roots and when is the best time to pick them. It makes sense though. Roots like darkness. Like red fox, Artleads and me :)

      Fermented foods are all the rage these days here. Do you do any of that at home? They have classes here on how to make them. It's a fad but at least it's healthy. But, I hear you... people are not interested in learning about food and the plants that give us food. I sometimes wonder if it has something to do with the pace of society. Society moves fast these days, at the pace of the TV commercial, or the freeway, or the sub-second response time of web sites, and the quick thumb action that teenagers engage in when they send text messages to their buddies. Food and plants are "slow", much less "engaging" than the modern diversions. It's a sad situation, if you ask me.

      For years, I ate meals at work and didn't care about food other than to fuel myself with it. Lately though, I have slowed down and I cook my food in my kitchen. It's a lesson in slowing down.

      They're coming up with digital detox summer camps here for adults. Unplugged adults slow down and re-connect with each other, if only for a short while. This is one of them - Camp Grounded

    6. Hi Satish,

      Your link about that camp made me smile a bit. I particularly liked "typewriters", and what are "wearables"? Without a context my mind is boggling.
      Actually it made me sad, to think that this is necessary - disneyfying what they think life is, was once, nostalgia, just for a few weeks - not for real but good for your health.

      My sister in Germany is a physiotherapist working in one of the largest psychiatric clinics in the country. She works with addicts of all sorts, you name them, they are treated there. Among the "treatments", therapies they get are riding and archery, the things my sister concentrates on now and really enjoys. She's a bit of an amazon and very good at both. So many of the things offered at that summer camp are offered there, by the German state, as therapies for addicts. Germany spends public money on that, unlike the UK and I think the US. Germans take it very seriously, like most things.;)

      I just couldn't help making this comparison. The "treatments" that German addicts are offered don't include typewriters yet... buy who knows what might happen, they might decide on that as an antidote to "device addiction".
      You see, I'm laughing and crying at the same time. Poor fools. But, of course, the food they get is "gourmet". That should make them happy. Dear me, real fool is now gourmet for all these people with "discerning palates". How can they be discerning when they're used to convenience foods? Going there, they obviously don't have "time" to prepare food. I mean, get a life! That's what I've had said to me.

      So where can we connect? I hate being arrogant but just thinking about those fools paying money for that makes me feel a different species. And that's bad because I do not like feeling like that.
      But you have to laugh....

      Fermented food, yes, it's the same here. I was brought up with many fermented and salted foods. Most people were, when I was young in Germany. The famous Sauerkraut is a fermented food and sourdough. I used to suffer from some kind of withdrawal when I couldn't get sourdough in the 70s and 80s here in England, when most of the bread you could get was "rubber bread".
      As you say, it's a fad. Everything is a fad now - been there, done that...

      I'm a great fan of miso soup, have been for a long time. And all kinds of pickles: German, Scandinavian, American, Japanese, Indian, etc all delicious to my taste.

    7. Hi Sabine, yes, I've eaten sauerkraut many times before. I like it a bit better than the popular Korean fermented equivalent, kimchi. I had a German guy for my boss during my last few months at Google. He introduced me to gluhwein which is available here in a specialty ethnic store.

      Someone said "nostalgia isn't what it used to be"

      Wearables are gadgets people wear on their bodies or attach to their skin to monitor their heart rate, etc. Google has invented a contact lens that measures blood sugar levels. That would be a wearable... or even the Apple Watch. It's stupidity, basically!

  17. Satish - you do have a gift for code-breaking. Thought then communication give rise to action. You can't cure cancer if you don't know what you have and then explore several healing paths - or do nothing which is still a choice.

    In defense of ARTLEADS - sometimes looking for options and answers is a soul destiny. You might know perfectly well that there is nothing you can permanently achieve here. But your willingness, kindness, attempts might go with your soul somewhere. Try to fathom how massive our milky way galaxy is - and it is all made of energy that is never destroyed. Caring, supporting, taking small actions like picking up litter are active steps in evolution beyond thought. Thought waves do not need physical form. Waves create particles that form many realities. Physical realities are manifested to EVOLVE the results of actions. Mistakes are always made. Too much? Too little? What would you do different if you had a next time?

    Libraries, documentaries, the world wide web is full of evidence of how all of nature does work in collectives. It is simply a matter of what facts you want to find. Anything anyone attempts is subject to debate. Since tomatoes are fruit Bud says they do taste good in fruit salad. On NBL Mike K. sensibly explained why doom oriented people will always find a reason to destroy any effort or attempt to alter paths of destruction.

    Do not attempt to start will do nothing at all. YET billions of people do have cell phones. The invention of a single light bulb has spread to make Earth glow at night in space. I spent hours writing you a personal letter with names of people who recently made nice changes. Maybe you prefer the horrible people like Stalin or Hitler....who was once also a nobody. A starving artist who's voice created great destruction. Good or bad, back to Babylon some single voices do make changes. I'm going to e-mail you a personal "grassroots" note I got from Obama today. I certainly do not approve of everything about any President, but many came from nowhere and learned how to deal with great opposition.

    Flocks of birds, schools of fish, herds of Zebra continue to alter their habits to evolve and survive in a changing world. Volumes of field studies prove how nature does take small steps. However, to even reach the 100th monkey that crossed the tipping point it must have started with one washing fruit in a river - a small habit change in a river of consciousness that flowed into a world wide critical mass far beyond that single first reach.

    We can see sides of everything. Reasons & roots for everything. Mix together the dualities where both single actions & small efforts do count. There is no top to any pyramid of power with out a support base. If you know everything is doomed to fail on Earth can you ever accept any single thing for reasons beyond? For your own evolution? For planets awaiting and things yet to come?

    Satish - you were right that Gandhi got co-opted. Many this also get corrupted. All Earth Continents have shifted. The sun will eventually extinguish. Entropy, collapse & decay are universal laws. So from Moses to Lincoln their time was wasted setting some free. They are guilty and to blame for not getting that issue resolved to perfection. It is hopeless and no one should try to reduce forms of slavery that still exist today. If it did not get done decades ago or today to my highest expectations...then we should end it all tomorrow. Total Extinction with out any possibility for any souls to return? Live again & learn.

    We each carry seeds of wisdom, living witness to times of change. Our collective impressions and judgments feed into morphic fields much larger. Along with LOVE, waves of evolving creation will remain.

    1. Hi Mark, that note from Obama is a mass email... it appears personalized because it's addressed to you with your first name. But it went out to Millions.

      Don't you think cell phones and light bulbs everywhere is a sign of cancer? They are also a sign of massive centralization too. And centralization results in loss of local autonomy. Sabine's neighbors are more enthralled by what's presented to them by such centralized forces as TV messaging and schooling and less by what their next door neighbor is telling them. There's hardly any community left. Much less a chance of grassroots change. I'm a pessimist in this regard.

      I only hope there's justice elsewhere. Maybe you feel it at the other levels you speak of. Then all is good.

    2. April fools LOL I know it went to everyone at OFA...but the context of the e-mail had elements of your "Who am I" article. I didn't even know Obama drove an old Honda decades ago. If NTE does not happen someone like you Satish might be good. Just wanted to share with you the idea that people with poor backgrounds do reach positions where some of what you write has temporary alterations. I also remember to look at the universal scale as a MO FLOW sort of reminder that Earth history is minor. The only meta-question is your personal energy Satish. What will your experience in this lifetime return to the source. What is your evolving "story" going to return to the big picture? Strong beliefs form their own temporal realities. Powerless, hopeless, cancer are all very real no doubt. Some will fight to a bitter end to prove there is never a cure for anything. Unjust. Horror. Madness rules supreme...and it does. No debate. I see all of it. Eternally. Dark matters are prevalent no matter where your soul travels.

      There is also beauty. Sometimes abstract in a pile of trash. A colorful mushroom is part of the process of a decaying tree.

      Being the change I want to see, includes acceptance. tranquility. calming my own turmoil. Not being alarmed about many things....taking all the negativity and narrowing the focus to ATTEMPT to fix the worst. Which problem is the biggest of them all? Which will last much longer than others? Does even the most long term problem on Earth matter enough. If the worst is actually a gift in disguise...then all the other issues are even smaller problems in size.

      ARTLEADS describes it so well: "The ideas attach themselves to me. I'm not really TRYING to think of things to do. I'm fulfilling my "program," so to speak."

      SATISH - everything you say does impact how far I will attempt to do anything. I'm deeply away of the values of Zen. Even the non-response from others tells me as much as Lidia's NBL screams. Silence is surrender. During a crisis I survived long ago the slogan was Silence = death. This is the year I attempt communication & analysis. I'm considering all factors. dropping big issues each weekend. trying to stay as clear as possible in my head. I'm truly not overly attached to any answer or outcome. All of this came up for review by large circles who passed the nearly impossible down to one. And I am always listening to you...You might be the voice of reason, the exact factor in this double blind experiment in our date with a highly radioactive destiny. After all radiation does kill cancer. It's a harsh treatment compared to natural healing...but a hostile future environment is not favorable for souls returning. Saving the earth was never an option....It's simply a matter of possible reductions & alterations on the road to man-made destruction. Trillions are being spent on weapons. Billions on planning & preparations. No secret they will get a return on their warfare investments. Increased NWO centralized power. No secret - when you put enough concentrated energy into
      any system there will be results. Carbon is an energy. Consumption is energy. CERN is big energy....My only concern is being realistic with my own energy, potential & keys in this puzzle. Interaction here is both a tool and gift from aware spirits to higher schools of thought. THANKS

    3. thank YOU Mark! we each do what we do with our piece of the puzzle. that's it. we have no idea how the web of connection *really* works, more than the tiniest fraction of a percent. there is so much more going on right now than meets any surface view.

    4. hi Satish -

      "I only hope there's justice elsewhere. Maybe you feel it at the other levels you speak of."

      you, and every other sentient being, are stuck with this: every single action, word, and behavior you have ever done in this lifetime and every other lifetime, and every response and reaction, on every level from every other being to those actions, words, and behaviors, is recorded for all time as part of your TOTAL conscious awareness.

      you, in your TOTAL awareness, can compare every single one of those experiences to the actions that are based solely on unconditional love, and the awareness that is total awareness. you get to experience the contrast of your "unloving, unaware" actions to the ultimate standard of "totally loving, totally aware."

      there is NO judgement in the "higher realms" of Total Reality. only this experience, as spelled out above, exactly as is.

      if you don't think that is the ultimate justice, then you may be in for a surprise. there is a very good reason some souls are terrified to move into the light. not because of ANY judgement, but the simple facts of:

      - unconditional love
      - total awareness

      that is a hard enough thing to face. this is the reason for what lives most deeply in the heart of the One

      - infinite mercy

      again: judgement, in any form, is completely nonexistent in the higher levels. because it is totally unnecessary.

    5. To mo: Uh, Huh. Eggsactly! People describe life reviews where they experience their entire lives within a non-time dimension. However, it is not a single perspective that is experienced, but at least three, the perspective of the person, the perspective of any other people or other living beings involved, and the perspective of the One, which is perfect in understanding, and every other way.

      mo is correct, and there is no judgment, and none is necessary. mo also has it correct that even in the body we shy away from the Light of the One, not because it will judge us, but because we KNOW the truth of our choices and all the implications. I have known people who have had visions of Jesus, people who were not Christians. I asked them what it was like to actually see a Divine Being, and the response was: that he is beautiful beyond words, and when he looks at you he knows everything about you, and he still loves you more than you have ever been loved, with more love than any mortal ever believed possible. And, the person having the experience felt like "dirt" compared to the goodness of the Being in front of them.

      Like Industrial Civilization, and the huge price in Life and beauty we have paid for all our shallow creativity and short-sightedness, so it is in spirit where we get to make the same kinds of choices and experience the outcomes of those choices.

      The One is LOVE, like water is wet. And Joy, and really quite funny if you can laugh at yourself. "God" is the funniest, smartest, kindest, most beautiful, loving and forgiving person unimaginable. It has to be experienced, because we can't even imagine such love and joy and peace.

  18. Dear SABINE, I wrote a longer "reply" to you above but just in case it is lost cause I'm a bit late to reading everything...I just have to add that your it does break my heart if your herbal gardening skills, knowledge, wisdom were not passed on. I had to add a bit of hopium to my March 31 comments to everyone above. Simply can't forget that healing ferns do spring up if we notice them. Loved how ARTLEADS described his list of concerns are something that flow thru him with little effort. I should have simply copied those exact words rather than try to say anything more.

    One Grandma is Cherokee my other was Mayan, although Mayans were considered Mexican in the 1960s....sort of like ARTLEADS as a baby getting dropped on his head, my brain was distorted by radiation (like many babies under the western atomic test clouds) I still can't speak or write well...unless you need a rapid stream of quantum calculations. A curse that might contain a space time cure.

    Einstein also had an odd space in his frontal lobe. Same as Hawking reduced to his computer voice in a wheelchair....but the elegant universe is composed of fractals, golden triangles & harmony in scales. Can't explain it but please don't rule the language of math out. It's all connected. Your witness, experience, joy, pain, bodies of energy in transformation are not lost in the ultimate intelligent design. Give it time. Take your time. The source of all time has space to tend your ills, weed your fears...grow your dreams. Everything will flow onward to where it most needs to go. You don't even have to have faith or trust to look up at the stars & see there is a much bigger picture out there. And you know that beyond what you can't see is spectrum's of invisible light. Pick an ultra violet. Cherish it with nutty science, honey & love.

    1. Thanks so much Mark for listening and understanding. By now, there should be something way better than this list, for I've been thinking within this basic paradigm from childhood (despite several egregious departures). Having my head pummeled against the wall--how often I did not enquire, but once with enough anger and devilry accompanying it was sufficient--might have altered some important brain circuitry. Hugely important too was my art training. I'm not entirely sure that part-time work in the art library wasn't the clincher, for I looked at books of great art so obsessively that I might have been considered mad. Years before that, at an "applied art" college, I travelled to Europe and had my eyes opened to classical form in the built environment. When I returned to my place of birth, I could appreciate colonial architecture for the first time. What was in the classical forms? What was in the great art? I might need your help to find out, for I think it had to do with fractals. And because I was so awakened to them in art and architecture, I could see them very clearly in nature as well. An offence to nature was like an offense to culture. Since I graduated art school I've been a slave to the cause from which the list springs. God would have to help me to arrange and write about it in an intelligent manner. I seem to be stuck at the list stage. I welcome help from others.

    2. I'm so in tune with your experience: "A little voice advised me to slow down. It seemed so pointless and trivial at the time. But when I woke up this morning, it became deeper and clearer in meaning. I wasn't just about me. "I" was spread as far as my consciousness would allow, or that seemed to fit an inner (aesthetic?) prerogative"

      I'd like to copy about 10 other things you said all the way back to the start of this year. But trust me they are in my head. Sorry I make typos. But you seem to understand I have a problem even seeing them. SABINE is so much more clear and concise. Love how she will even add a post to correct a missing word.

      Doubt I will spell this right but Euclidean geometry contains the classic Greek architectural scales you asked about. Subconsciously you probably also remember reading about Fibonacci fractals in the art books. It all comes from nature but the Renaissance Italians put the golden ratio measurements into charts. Perfect symmetry contained in a nautilus shell is a picture you may remember. That ratio turns out to be physically beautiful where ever it is applied. stunning levels of balance mixed in perfect harmony with unique patterns. Every snow flake is a fractal. Repeating patterns yet totally unique in microscopic details.

      Thanks for understanding: "So we stop. We clean up. We repair." That's it exactly. Ranger Marco picked up a mountain of litter. At the time I was simply in the flow of doing that there. Now we are in a time where Fukishima got to think about needing a bigger picture Emergency Operations. What happens if more than 3 meltdown in the same week? Wish none of it was built but that is not reality. De-commissioning them all would take a huge public outcry after an event larger than the Japan Disaster. Trying to get pre-disaster large scale public concern is beyond my talent. So I'll take any reasonable techno fix. Not trying to save the world. Just happy if there is a reduction. Sorta like cleaning the beach. It's nice. Good for the turtle nests. But the root of the problem is in a thousand plastic bottle factories, consumers, commercial, cruise ships. The old lone ranger knows the greater problems..but doing something within reach still helped a turtle or two. (Turtles & sea birds eat plastic & get tangled in garbage) Think global. Act local. small scale ART sometimes LEADS to larger galleries. Time will tell.

    3. Indeed, Mark.

      "The old lone ranger knows the greater problems..but doing something within reach still helped a turtle or two. (Turtles & sea birds eat plastic & get tangled in garbage) Think global. Act local. small scale ART sometimes LEADS to larger galleries. Time will tell."

      I find that the actions which matter are not of the quid pro quo variety. I do so and so, and so and so will happen. The actions I find that matter, and that never ever fail (much to my surprise), are those (cliché as it sounds) based on doing what I truly love, based on my passionate intention. Almost all my life I have ignored, overlooked, been unaware of, mistrusted the authority and sanctity of that inner me that knows what it loves. Maybe that is my true self.

      And following that inner driver might involve not altogether desired tasks. I certainly don't want to clean up my desk, but I cannot help but making some sort of creative leap to what I truly love if I do so. So the lazy, unmotivated person shuts out the godly person deeper within. I suppose I was born to clean up certain kinds of mess. You too, I suspect. Often to make chaotic things orderly. But only the types and quantity of mess and chaos that fit, as you say, one's capacity?

      You can't clean up much of the plastic. You can't even see it where it forms soup and exceeds in quantity sea plankton. No way to clean up swirls of plastic the size of Texas. But you can appeal to the movers and shakers to clean other kinds of mess. You have the qualifications and passion to do it. And why is it that you are in the place to do it too? Is there generally an equation between the ability, the passion and the place? So what's in front of me to do? OK, talked myself into it. If it's just for a few second, I'll take a stab at the messy desk, and I'll look if I see the blender, later to turn some cardboard into paper pulp. :-)

      A little at a time. In all my 77 years, I've never seen it where small things done with passion don't lead to "larger galleries." So, no disrespect to time. But I don't I don't need time to tell. It has already told me. It's not possible to fail.

  19. When I used to participate in the tribal-living forum I remember having a disagreement with a then, online mate about science and tech. He posted up a satellite photograph of Earth at night and was almost orgasmic over it. It absolutely appalled me to see how lit up the globe was over Nw europe and the US and other obvious civilised hotspots. If I had the ability to uninvent something I think electricity would be in the top 3. No other living beings are ever, ever considered when science is applied. It would have been considered sheer insanity to ask whether the application of electricity was absolutely necessary; just as it would be now to question cell phones and this electronic jailer that i'm typing on. Cell phone towers are of course "necessary" (to privileged humans-I doubt there are "billions" who have them-maybe the high millions but the "west" is not the world) but not to other beings or other humans health who dont have them.

    I am leaning more back to my Green Anarchist views the longer this situation goes on. I dont want to be involved in any attempt to prolong or preserve anything from this civilisation (ancient real knowledge like that of Sabines is totally uncivilised of course!). There is no way now to alter the trajectory that civ is taking although I dont believe Dr McP is correct in his NTHE hypothesis, certainly not the NTE one at any rate. Anyway, no one will ever know. Just as nobody who came out of the Toba tunnel knew how close HS were to being eradicated.

    Just a note with regard to my mentioning a GA (Green Anarchist) perspective. This doesnt include the frauds such as DGR and Jensen.

    Sabine, I still havent cracked this in my limited foraging- how the heck do you tell the difference between ground elder and alexanders. There is loads round here but im never sure whether its ground elder as I would like to use the leaves!!

    1. Red Fox,
      It's completely impossible for any of us to get out of this sticky web entirely. We've been caught in it for so long. So what to do? Do what we can with awareness, including the awareness we're trying to get to the bottom of here: imagining our ancient ancestors and holding the people who created this mess over a long time responsible. I think that what it is, holding the right people and "customs" responsible. "Blame" is the wrong word but it's what our culture likes to do now. It's so "now". All the politicians do it. People do it when they sue for everything etc etc.When a scapegoat must be found. But the word misses the point IMO because it implies that people, organisations can just pay a fine, say they're "really sorry", apologise an so on. This way you can avoid talking about and taking responsibility. And not taking responsibility for something that's gone wrong, has been exploited and damaged, is avoiding the issue completely. That's why blame is pushed or the absence of it (by Paul Cherfurka and his ilk). It makes people come down on a particular side, it's divisive and so typical for our culture.

      Ground elder is really delicious, I agree. It's another plant good for rheumatic complaints. I use it now, fresh, just chopped and sautéed like spinach in oil and/or butter with salt and pepper. I use it in quiches and dried as part of an infusion against rheumatism. I always dry quite a bit of it, and now is the right time to do all that. When I make an infusion with the dried herb, I mix it with some fennel seeds to give it a better flavour, and fennel is excellent for settling the stomach. Some herbs should always be mixed with fennel for that reason. It's also very nice to use with all cabbage type plants because again, the stomach likes it, less flatulence for people who are prone to that.

      The difference between ground elder and alexanders is this: both are umbellifers, members of the lovely carrot family. So many of them are edible and really delicious. Cow parsley too. Pick it now and use it as a herb or in salads.
      Before the flowers come out (ground elder white, alexanders pale yellow) you can tell the quite similar leaves apart by the number of their trifoliate leaf clusters ( trifoliate=three leaves on one stalk attached to the main stem). Ground elder is once or at most twice trifoliate, and alexanders are twice or three times trifoliate, and their entire leaf is much larger. Alexanders have solid stems and ground elder's stems are hollow. It's also is carpet-forming, thus the bane of tidy gardeners. Alexanders grow near the sea and a little inland and smell of celery. If you have them near, I envy you. They're lovely to eat. We're too far inland here for them to make an appearance.

      Once you find a nice lot of any plant you want to "forage", cut a patch (now is best) and let it grow again. Like all vegetables, herbs and fungi: young is best for flavour and texture. Greens grow more bitter the older they get. All common sense once you think about it. I have little patches of many wild plants that I harvest in this way. I like to think that this is what people have always done.
      It's one of the reasons why I think that foragers were probably less mobile (more settled) than we like to make them out. You need to know where the plants you need grow and then tend them, encourage them by frequent cutting.
      When anthropologists talk about hunter/gatherers, they mean the remnants of what was once normal. Something distorted by having to adapt to ever changing conditions brought about by other human cultures and moved on. Empiricism doesn't help you there.

      Just my own thoughts based on my foraging experience.

    2. Sabine,
      Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Im convinced the majority are alexanders. It's everywhere on the hedgebanks, even on the main A road (wont be using those though). The flower heads are there but not "out" yet and look to be yellow. I just double checked my Richard Mabey book to make sure. I suppose, as the crow flies, i'm about 7 or 8 miles from the coast so I would think that is not too far inland. I wasnt aware that the leaves of alexanders were edible, I thought it was just the stems so I think that that is where I confused myself!

      Re your comment about HG's; I agree, from the stuff that I have read they were/are not really nomadic in the way that herders are but semi nomadic, having a "round" of seasonal pitches to follow the vegetation and fauna. If they were truly nomadic I dont believe they could have sustained the vast intimate knowledge or connection with Land that they do. The true nomads, herders and the Romany are a diaspora, landless and within civ, stateless. That said, I know a bit about the Rom and they certainly know how to live off the land, or did do. That mostly ended with Thatcher and the blocking of over 90% of the traditional stopping places and Commons.

    3. Yes, with alexander you can eat all of it, but the leaves are best before the flowers come out, are budding. So it might be too late. Just try one. See what you think.
      Don't forget though that you'll also get hemlock, another umbellifer, near the sea. They have white flowers and definitely don't smell of celery.

      I still have a copy of Richard Mabey's book , from 1973, a year after it was first published. I've always cherished it and it's still a mine of information for me.

    4. "-I doubt there are "billions" who have them"

      there are 96 cell phone subscriptions for every 100 people in the world.

      "There are almost as many cell-phone subscriptions (6.8 billion) as there are people on this earth (seven billion)—and it took a little more than 20 years for that to happen.

      ...Those figures are the latest from the United Nations’ telecommunications agency, which keeps track of the rise and fall of various kinds of communications technology. Of course, 100 subscriptions doesn’t mean that everyone has a cell phone, just most people. In wealthier countries, penetration rates exceed 100% because of individuals with multiple subscriptions, making up for the disparity in developing economies. Still, penetration rates are impressive even in poor countries, with an average of 89.4 subscriptions per 100 inhabitants.

      ...Today, almost everywhere has more mobile phone penetration than land-lines: The continent of Africa has dismal fixed-line penetration of 1.4 subscriptions per 100 people, but 63.5 cell subscriptions."

    5. Wow-i'm shocked. Madness.
      Here's a small antidote :)

  20. Sabine,
    Re your question to OGF and your intuition regarding Paul C. I agree.
    The whole NBL comment section is dire imo. Bot thinks he can get away with anything now that Ulvfugl has gone. The rest is just rehashing all the crap that has gone before. Even Dr.McP's essays are getting a bit off track imo; perhaps it's Carolyn Bakers influence who appals me as well (sorry!). Apart from Satish's, yours, OGF's and Westers comments I try not to read anything else although I have a morbid fascination for Bot's posts (bit like rubber necking a car crash).

  21. ARTLEADS - special reply to you above. Do what we can with awareness, including the awareness we're trying to get to the bottom of here:

    LOVE THIS from Red Fox: "I am leaning more back to my Green Anarchist views the longer this situation goes on. I dont want to be involved in any attempt to prolong or preserve anything from this civilisation (ancient real knowledge like that of Sabines is totally uncivilised of course!)"

    Cool MO FLOW just materialized....just as I gotta sail off to the ZION NUCLEAR PLANT decommissioning process meeting. Even taking one apart is better than none. The Senator from Vermont is willing to sit-in today cause he's concerned about the YANKEE plant in VT. Angela Merkel & everyone in Germany thanks for the baby steps!

    1. Marco -

      I responded above to Satish's and your comments.

      I am not even slightly surprised just how much you can connect with what I am saying. "Easy breezy to be all that because that is the fact of the source from which we were all created." so much YES YES YES.

      oh - and the math thing? I can so totally dig this. more on that later...

      one baby step at a time, one nuke at a time, and...

  22. This is John Zerzans essay on Agriculture that first appeared in his "Elements of refusal". It is a really good introduction to his thoughts and this small excerpt first brought to my attention the downside of shamanism.

    " The sacred means that which is separated, and ritual and formalization, increasingly removed from the ongoing activities of daily life and in the control of such specialists as shamans and priests, are closely linked with hierarchy and institutionalized power. Religion emerges to ground and legitimize culture, by means of a “higher” order of reality; it is especially required, in this function of maintaining the solidarity of society, by the unnatural demands of agriculture. In the Neolithic village of Catal Hüyük in Turkish Anatolia, one of every three rooms was used for ritual purposes. Plowing and sowing can be seen as ritual renunciations, according to Burkert, a form of systematic repression accompanied by a sacrificial element. Speaking of sacrifice, which is the killing of domesticated animals (or even humans) for ritual purposes, it is pervasive in agricultural societies and found only there."

    Link to the essay:

  23. Hi, Sabine. I haven't really thought about Paul C beyond appreciating a couple of his comments and noting his limited rather nice comments to me. I tend to be self absorbed nearly all the time, and rarely discuss others unless something catches my attention in either a strongly positive or negative direction. I guess Paul must not have done either one of those things or I would have stronger feelings about his comments. It is not virtue that I am low on the gossip scale, it is a pure and unadulterated lack of interest in other people because they just aren't interesting enough.

    The exception is when people annoy or upset me and I cannot get away from them. Then I don't shut up until the issue is resolved. I resolved my issue with Bot's obvious malice and insanity by not reading his comments, and generally skipping the comments of people who support him or agree with him. (It costs too much money to heat all the water for all the showers I feel I need after reading some of that psychosis and malice, so it's cheaper on every score just to gloss over that stuff.)

    I would like very much to write more to everyone about all kinds of things, but I fear that rescuing an abandoned pitsky, who is one year of age and not at all socialized, has kept me busy for weeks now, and adding my first baby chicks has only complicated things more. I will say this, I am walking 3-5 miles a day now just taking the dogs out, I am becoming addicted to being outside like I haven't been in years, and I am stronger than I have been in quite a while, ever since almost two years ago when I bought a small electric log splitter, and I quit splitting my firewood with a maul.

    The dog has gained ten pounds in about five weeks, up from just over 60 pounds to just under 70. That is how malnourished he was. I could see his ribs when he arrived in February when temperatures were well below zero.

    I have now officially been a farmer for four days, since I obtained my bantam Easter Egger chickens. I think one is half Serama, it is sooooooooo tiny. They are named No. 1, No. 2, No. 3, No. 4 and No. 5. No. 5 is the little one, and also the darkest. I am amazed they have survived this far, and am having fun watching them.

    The pitsky is better than I feared he might be with the chickens. It might actually work out, after all, mo. I think he might even be a very good SAR dog. He has the strength of a bully, combined with the running and endurance of both a bully and a husky, and he has the nose of a husky. By some coinkydink, we were at the local pet and farm supply store where pets can go inside, and a SAR volunteer noticed my new dog and came over to check him out. He mentioned he did SAR with dogs and that Puppyman had a lot of excellent attributes for the work. Maybe he named himself Puppyman for a reason.

    1. I had a feeling it might be better to give Puppyman the benefit of the doubt with the chickles! oh I hope that really works out. so glad to hear it is going well so far!

      SAR work could be *brilliant* for Puppyman! he would look so freaking hot in the cape and goggles...

    2. DEAR OGF - This puppyman is so happy you returned. 7pm in DC at the end of the meeting my mind keep asking how is OGF?? Love my life. Prayer answered. I'm going to walk home past the reflecting pond in front of Lincoln memorial. Your faithful, playful dog spirits are everywhere.

    3. 2 of 2

      Heaven can come down and earth can fade away, and one mightn't notice. I had a very odd experience of heaven yesterday. We took my spouse's car to a car wash of her choosing, one that I would in no way have selected myself. It was conveniently located, she said. Right next to the grocery store where we were eventually bound, and they also did repairs to windshields--she had two flying-pebble dings that needed attention.

      The owner had on shorts, and sat at a table speaking on his cell phone. The décor was bright, with many slick photos of cars and some silhouette-type murals of cars. The receptionist was pleasant--no complexes--when asked to explain the coffee machine, and there was a significant selection of brands in little canisters. I took a drawing to work on, and one of the benches afforded me perfect privacy and illumination. It got stranger. In the rest room, I tried to clean away a pale pinkish brown stain running down the sink. I tried other little fixes too, and eventually--not as a result--noticed myself feeling, well, elevated. The owner came into the bathroom just as I was leaving, and I felt certain that he was benign, that I was welcome, that I was safe. There were a couple policemen in the waiting area, and I was likewise convinced that they were on my side. This is not my usual reaction to policemen armed with weapons on their hips. I worked on my drawing with inspiration. My spouse was taking care of her business, having been informed by an attendant that her insurance would cover the windshield repair. It felt good to be left in peace and comfort to do my drawing. The coffee was good. It dawned on me that this wasn't an ordinary place. Everybody there "knew" something. I was not alone. No one was annoyingly curious about my drawing. This is what heaven is like, I thought. No aggression, no ill intent. The workers knew something as well, and they knew that I knew that. One guy--maybe a foreman of sorts--had a face I'd seen on homeless men. In other contexts, I might have avoided or distrusted him, but he too knew, and knew that I knew that, and was at special pains to look me in the eye and wish me good tidings for my day.

      What still "bothers" me is the bright floral print plastic table cloth for the coffee table. It didn't drape evenly (in a straight line) down the front.

  24. 1 of 2


    Through injury or some other mutation, for me at least, things can be real and unreal at one and the same moment. I hardly have to switch from one mode to the next. It's almost as if there were no difference between the real and the imaginary...

    So, for the purposes which I set about, extinction of anyone or anything tends (because it doesn't suit my "trance") is seen as unnecessary. Even the well worn idea of death being a part of life fails to quite register with me. I want everything and every being to last forever. This characteristic really does serve for patching up things--I'm trained (minor key) as an art conservator. There's a way to keep things going without any foreseeable end. For instance, the oldest, continuously occupied building in America is the Taos Pueblo in NM. It's built of mud, but is over 1000 years old. It's maintained by annual community effort to ritualistically repair its adobe surfaces. If cared properly, no material thing--I can't say about life--ever has to perish. Maybe that's why I find things more compelling than creatures. Creatures are powerfully programed to disappear, and one shouldn't try to make it otherwise (beyond commonsense and prudent extension of their lives). And things and stories and histories of those lives, so unique and precious, that flicker out like candles, are extended through the things that surrounded them, that they touched, that bear their stamp in some way. Which is why preservation of every single object (not that it can be other than aspired to) is of such monumental importance. To my way of thinking, we must hold on to everything--the most ephemeral, crushed bottle cap or cigarette butt, and I doubt that we can avoid extinction if we don't. (This goes back to my list item: radical conservation/preservation. Of everything. Without distinction between what is and what isn't civilization. There is a philosophical correlate to each item of that list, and the correlates all integrate with one another.) But the life of species can go on indefinitely, I should think. Those supposed laws that say everything has a beginning and an end don't entirely compute for me.

    1. I've been to the Taos pueblo several times. Another example is 1551 Castillo de san Marcos in St. Augustine Fla. Preserved in perfect condition. Feel the foot prints living thru time. The fountain of youth is next to the fort.

      Looking down from Sandia Peak in New Mexico I think you can see Edgewood on Hwy 40. Is the wildlife west nature park still alive in Edgewood as it expands? I love the 1940's character of the old Rt 66 REDTOP DINER. Abobe whitewashed with red indian kuchina symbol on front. Artistic adorable diner lost in an era if it is still there???

  25. Hi Satish,

    Thanks for your help with breaking up the long post into two parts. So I should have posted the bottom half first? I must have misunderstood you. But the two halves are here, only not together as intended, and the bottom half appears above the top. I hope to get it right next time.

    1. Is that little dancing figure near the bottom something that I can remove?

    2. For some reason, I can't see a dancing figure. I wish I could :)

    3. Hi Artleads, you did the right thing with the posting. You posted 1 of 2 at 5:45 PM and 2 of 2 at 5:48 PM so all good there. The reason why it appears reversed is because you posted 2 of 2 as a "reply" to the post above so it is misplaced a bit and appears above 1 of 2 which is a brand new post, not a reply.

  26. loved your comment Artleads. and especially part 2. don't worry that it didn't drape right. '-)

    BE the dancing robot! woOt!

  27. What Am I?

    "You are way more than you think you are."

    that is it. it is just a question of finding that out, in this grand adventure.

    wow Nanci Danison. (regarding the subject of this post, and the title and first sentence of chapter three in Backwards)

  28. When you look in the mirror, what do you see? You see a human being. An inhabitant of Mother Earth. But is that really you? When your child dresses up in an ear of corn costume for the school play, does that mean he is a vegetable? Does an astronaut become an alien from outer space when she dons a space suit to work outside the space shuttle? Looks can be deceiving. Your true existence is not limited to what your human senses can perceive. “You” are not your body. It is something you wear in order to experience human life in much the same way the child wiggles into the corn costume to be in the play, or the NASA mission specialist steps into the space suit to protect her from the ravages of space travel. Yet there is an immensely important distinction. While the costumes are inanimate objects, your human host is very much alive and self-aware.

    Danison, Nanci L. (2007-10-01). Backwards: Returning to Our Source for Answers (Backwards Books) (p. 29). A.P. Lee & Co., Ltd.. Kindle Edition.

    1. That's an interesting take Mo. It is one I completely disagree with but understand what you are saying. Many years ago I was studying a certain branch of Hinduism that is quite vocal in Britain. Their take is exactly the same as yours. In other words, the physical body is a "suit" to be worn from incarnation to incarnation until it is no longer "necessary". The same philosophy is pretty widespread amongst other religions and/or spiritualities that originate within a civilised paradigm. From my other studies about forager spiritualities there doesnt seem to be any notion of this except for this qualification. The majority acknowledge an eternal indwelling animating human spirit that is PART of the physical body until it isnt. The body and spirit is not separate but a united being. Im sure you know all that! My take is that for the moment, here, now I am a composition of the physical body and the spirit so when I look in a mirror, yes, that really is me for this moment. In another incarnation I would have been a different physical body. The spirit moulds itself around materiality when it is on the visible physical realm and I believe does something similar when not incarnated in this realm. Otherworld entities appear to adopt appearances to suit the contact I think.
      So, I consider I certainly am my body for now amongst other things.

      Can I be a bit bold to ask how you ascertain the genuiness of entity contacts? I have been taught to always question thoroughly before proceeding within a non physical realm as discarnate or non physical forms are well able to deceive and appear as other than they are.

      One last thing! Would you describe your views as Monism? Personally, that viewpoint doesnt resonate with me but again I think I understand the philosophy of it. My take is broadly pan-animist if I was to be pushed for a label:)

    2. Red Fox,

      You've described very well there what I feel, how I feel reality to be. The reality I found after peeling back all the layers I could find, a long process... I always came back to" considering myself as my body amongst other things (for now)" like you. I also think that one should be sceptical about non-physical forms. As you say, they "are well able to deceive and appear other than they are". Even though I happily live with them, trying to integrate them into my "reality". Like my little cat Jelly who died in February last year. Out of all the cats who've lived here with us, she's the only one who appears in our house and garden. Very regularly, not only to me but also to my husband who's naturally sceptical. Our new cat sees her too. I'm sure that animals take this level of reality for granted. They don't try it puzzle it out because they don't have to balance reason with other ways of experiencing. Only we do by naming and labelling so we can share our views.
      A good example is your question for mo about his views on Monism.
      I know and I'm naturally interested to know about human philosophies, ways of reasoning, coming to conclusions etc,. That's inescapable for all "modern, educated, thinking" people. It's become a real "need" for us. But I find that the best way to connect (for me) is to contemplate all of these views, yes, collect them, yes but then to abandon them again and navigate on my own. It's very hard for me to describe this process but maybe you and others know what I'm trying to get at.
      If I didn't feel reality in this way, I might not feel the pain of separation from the rest of life on our Earth as painfully as I do. Being a spirit in a flesh shell/suit is not how I would like it to be, I might not care so much about my awareness her and now. But none of us really know...
      Maybe we all adopt a view somewhere along the line or rather in the process of our personal life which "gets us closest" to feel connected again. All the age-old "religious quests" we can mix and match and draw on "help" us along the way.

      But if I had to choose a label, it would also be "broadly pan-animist". That's where I feel the source IS.

      Mo, I might be totally wrong, of course, but I just don't seem to be able to take off winging it all over the universe.

      Maybe Mark's math would help... But Mark, I'm mathematically illiterate. I'm OK with arithmetic, and basic algebra and geometry, the basic tools. Maths has certainly expanded your mind in a way I could never contemplate. Yet we can connect. Isn't it marvellous?

      But mo, I respect your vision of the universe very much but I'm too Earth-bound to "get it". You seem to be at home there. Maybe that's why you come across as a strong, benevolent and truly generous spirit. Bless you for that!

    3. I just wrote a really long comment on NBL. It was an attempt to bridge multiple worlds and multiple levels of consciousness/awareness in the moment. It seemed as though some folks were coming up with views that were diagonally opposite to others'. And I went into my thinking about levels.

      What I find more fascinating now in this moment is there's such a wide variety of spirits here, even more than on NBL... bear with me when I refer to you all as spirits for a moment. It's enough that you have something to say and I'd consider you a spirit! Maybe "being" instead of spirit?

      mo flow is an energy being who seems to be on one end of the spectrum, with Earth as but just one place in his Universe of multiple planes and dimensions with numerous beings everywhere. red fox is on the other side of the spectrum, very much Earth-bound, but more than that, looking for a specific place on Earth that is his calling, his land, his roots (correct me if I'm not understanding this properly). The rest of us are somewhere along that continuum. Sabine is Earth-bound. So is Artleads, it seems. Mark, on the other hand, is a bit like mo flow, living in the spirit realm, or energy realm. I think both OGF and I are mostly Earth-bound but get curious about mo flow's Universe. Of course, this is just a very preliminary understanding, a very rationalistic, linear way of thinking. It will evolve as time goes on.

      That's what I get when I try to see it through all of your eyes at the same time. A bit dizzy. But what an interesting "meeting of the spirits" we're partaking in!

      I don't like labels either, but my views have been influenced by anarcho-primitivism and animism among others. Like red fox, I am very cynical and skeptical and think a lot about my Earthly roots. But at some level, I have a feeling there's more to it than my 5-sense world. And so I straddle my different levels of consciousness. Maybe we all come from different tribes that are truly created differently, composed of different types of beings? At least we can all speak English!

    4. Hi, Satish. I certainly have a very strong practical streak, and an awareness and love (geophilia) of the biological world around me.

      mo and I have written privately at some length, sharing accounts of our experiences. I have had many quite profound spiritual experiences, including out-of-body experiences that I have no doubt whatsoever were not only "real," they were more "real" than this dimension in the same way that the waking state of consciousness is "more real" than dream states of consciousness *once we leave the dream*(!). One of my OBEs was a near-death experience, and I remembered existing prior to my current Earth incarnation, and how I felt about coming here. I also saw the Light that people talk about in connection with such experiences, and I *knew* certain things about my real self, my spirit being, and my purpose for my life on Earth as oldgrowthforest.

      I also have psychic experiences all the time that are less profound, but sometimes they are very BIG. I receive real guidance from someplace. This is where mo and I do differ: I don't attempt to define the guidance as "me," and in my experience, mo generally does. To "me," it seems like the guidance I receive is from a few places - the One, maybe guides, certainly departed family and ancestors, and sometimes it is from the real spirit Me. This kind of experience is reliably protective and accurate and is based in knowledge that I could not have, consciously or unconsciously.

      On an analytical level, I totally get where mo is coming from. If there is a supreme consciousness that is the Creator (as the Injuns [feather, not dot] would say), then we can know something of this Creator from the Creation. One of the things we know through observation that is derivation. Everything comes from something else. Always. In science, of course, it all started with the sacred big bang.

      If everything comes from something, and the Creator made everything in existence, then there was only one thing to make it all out of, and that was the Creator's own Self. Rather like extended sunbeams are in their way "the sun," but at the same time are not "the sun." I accept this as foundational to my understanding of reality on an intellectual level in the same way I accept gravity and other things I can observe at work but don't really experience separately from the whole.

    5. This is such a kind, peaceable and clarifying contribution. Thanks, Satish. I learn from others here in pretty much the way you (and others) describe: Mo Flow's generosity and upbeat spiritual glow; Sabine, the Earth goddess who devours the land and keeps it in her stomach (sort of a German thing, perhaps); OGF, ironic, in a silvery spirit world with an exceedingly light footprint; Red Fox, the strict scalpel-wielding realist, with whom I (and Satish?) have much in common; Mark and I also have much in common, for he is very concerned about the world of things, and flicks through aspects of civilization and nature as if looking through a kaleidoscope...

    6. Continuing on . . . So, if the Creator made everything from the Creator's own Self, then everything made is also the Creator. It isn't something that got reassembled from other things, the way we do it. If we build anything in the world, we don't build it from our own minds, we build it from what is available to us that derived from other sources. The Creator did not do that. We are not a machine that got zapped with some kind of electric life; we were made from Life Itself.

      Based on both my personal experiences and my lifetime of study, I conclude the same things mo does regarding the why of it all ~ for the Creator's Joy and Love.

      So, while mo and I very much agree on the basics, mo does emphasize and frame reality as a level of awareness that "I" do not currently experience, and that is the nondualistic level, that there is nothing out there but my own beautiful, if confused, Self. Byron Katie talks about this minimally, as do many others.

      What I have experienced is a shift where everything around me appeared to be one thing with its own perfect harmony and music. That lasted only briefly. I can also see energy. I have seen auras a few times, but only white light around people. I can see energy in otherwise "empty" air space. I don't always see this, but once it happened spontaneously,I have been able to make the shift in perception on my own.

      What I experience regularly is the presence and communications of spirit. I have a lot of psychic abilities, and my great-grandmother was a very, very gifted mystic. This is typical of traditional Native American cultures, which were and are very spiritual in their approaches. One of the funniest experiences I ever had was when I was married. The former spouse and I were listening to a Navajo comedian on the radio talking about how young people leave the rez and go away to college, but when they go home, even after years away, about ten miles outside the rez they start feeling "superstitious." I was laughing so hard listening to that that I was holding my stomach. I glanced over at the ex and he was looking at me with a completely blank look that showed he had no idea whatsoever what was funny.

      The short version, mo and I have a lot in common in our understandings and experiences regarding spiritual realities. But we have had quite different experiences that make a big difference. I have zero direct experience or memory or understanding of any human life beyond my current life. I have never had an experience or received any knowledge in connection with reincarnation as a whole, or my own incarnations beyond this one are as solid for me as other experiences I have had. I have had flashes of something, and a very, very few dreams that I think are about other lifetimes, but they are not anywhere near as profound as other experiences.

      mo, on the other hand, has had more direct experience with reincarnation, which he once mentioned on NBL, so I don't think I'm betraying confidence here, while I have more medium abilities, telepathy here-and-now, do this, go there, help that woman kind of thing that goes on all the time. Even my spiritual experiences, however, are quite dualistic. There is very much "I" and "not-I".

    7. Continuing #2 . . .

      mo and I have had other differences in our experiences, and I use reincarnation as an example not a determining cause.

      One thing I believe I have in common with you, Satish, is my respect for previous generations and traditional wisdom and ways. I think we are very sympatico there. Part of my traditions is the pragmatism of the Native Americans, the lack of gratuitous mental creativity and destruction beyond what is necessary to live and meet my real needs. That can appear to be a greater focus on the material realm than is actually true of me.

      For everyone: if you go to the bottom of the page and click on: Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)

      it will bring up all the posts in order posted. This is easier for me than the ControlF function.

    8. ogf - no, you certainly are not betraying any confidences here at all, and I really love everything you are saying.

      red fox - just to clarify. this is not "a take" for me, personally, any more than when you look up and see the full moon, and say "hey, my take is that there is a full moon in the sky right now."

      you can see the full moon, as can someone standing right next to you. of course, it is all just dreamstuff on another level, so you, the moon, and the person you are sharing the experience with have no more substance than anything else in the dream. but that never makes the experience *feel* anything less than utterly real.

      this is hardcore reality for me, and I mean that on all KINDS of levels. :) quite extreme stuff.

      this is only possible because I live it on countless levels, over a lifetime of thousands of experiences from trivial to extraordinary, in this lifetime, and memories so real from other lifetimes they are as real (and more so) than many things I have experienced in this one.

      many of those experiences are as everyday ordinary real as seeing and sharing the full moon with other beings who are marveling at such a thing. and I can no more convince myself that I am "just human" than Neo can ever convince himself that his old "human life" was real, once he was unplugged. there is no going back.

      but there is a flipside here. not only can I actually relish being human in ways that are astoundingly fun and pure animal in ways I never could have before I was "unplugged" - I also get to "plug in" to BEING - truly living as, from the inside, out - all kinds of other beings in the living world.

      it just happens naturally to my energy, as I am "off in the larger world" during sleep, when I don't have to operate this human animal.

      I can't tell you how much I enjoy this, because there are no words that can describe it. it is pure ecstasy to live inside an animal (I won't say which, and there have been several) on the African plains, or the South American jungle, sharing - being - every moment of that animal's existence - my human animal utterly forgotten for hours - living every part of that animal's life, every last exquisite! feeling of pure muscle, motion, heat, legs, jaws, paws, and panting breath, and claws digging, shredding into earth and grass, when on the hunt. or the air under my wings, feathers spread and stretched from one edge of sky to the other... circling, circling...

      GOD - I wake up from a night like that, and I just have to lay there for half an hour, letting all the feelings slowly, reluctantly fade away, and just thinking, from the most guttural, delicious, lovely, drained, blissed out waves - GOD, god, oh god... OH god...!

      I feel like I am never going to be the same, and I'm not. the life is so real, it is burned into me forever. and I have so much of that stuff in my being right now, it is... well it would start to sound very weird if I really tried to describe it. :) perverse perhaps. but it is so beyond wonderful. '-)

      and to your question of how to distinguish the genuineness of entity contacts. there isn't any way, when I am one-on-one with the Energy Being level of another Being, that they can hide their true nature from me. I have no fear of probing into any Being as much as I want to, to find out what they are about, and I let them do the same to me. I am comfortable enough with myself, and strong enough and aware enough of things - to not get fooled. part of that has to do with the fact that I have had encounters - CLOSE encounters - with the worst of the worst out there. and I am here to tell the tale. what I gained from those experiences serves me very well.

    9. oh, and the "monism" question. there is truly only One thing. and that thing is completely ungraspable with any "ism" - ever. :)

      there are two things, two sides, two possibilities, of this One thing:

      - "you" can be completely "with the One." in which case you are effectively all of IT, from the inside, out. being all of IT, means being everything there is, because that is all there is.

      - "you" can be an Energy Being, and living this POV from an infinite number of vantage points, all of which are ultimately "your experience."

      this second "you" is actually nothing but a thought-form of the first "you." it is in fact always an illusion, a game of make-believe, but that hardly matters, because it is the ONE itself making and experiencing the illusion, the make-believe, so it is as "Real" as you can ever get, on any level - except for the Ultimate Real of being "on the other side" and fully in union.

    10. Sabine - "I also think that one should be sceptical about non-physical forms. As you say, they "are well able to deceive and appear other than they are""

      this is very much NOT true, and is in fact backwards. it is far easier to be deceived by a physical being than an energy one. both humans and animals practice deception in all kinds of ways. this is very well known.

      however, in energy form, it is essentially impossible to "put one over" - simply because the being is radiating its nature, in an elemental way. I have never actually been once in a situation where I didn't know immediately the nature of an Energy Being I was experiencing.

      it is only possible to go deeper and deeper into that energy nature, not - "oh, so you really are a baddie, and not the angel you appeared to be!"

      this kind of thing is very much a holdover from typical human fears. it does not exist in reality, unless the human being approaching this stuff is confused or fearful to begin with.

      the other side of this is that it is far more common for humans to make the mistake that they are experiencing something "deceptive" or "scary" or "bad" when in fact they are experiencing their own fear of the *unknown.*

      "But none of us really know..."

      it is always possible to know things like this, more or less accurately as to their true nature. it isn't as if all this stuff is some amorphous blob out there. *very* far from it. a lot of this stuff can be experienced and duplicated in ways that are essentially identical from person to person, without any preconceptions or comparing notes beforehand. the NDE literature is chock full of this kind of thing. also chock full of a lot of stuff that is obviously misperception, based on cultural conditioning or other reasons.

      "Mo, I might be totally wrong, of course, but I just don't seem to be able to take off winging it all over the universe."

      what is there to "be wrong" about? I can't actually play the violin. what does that mean? I haven't practiced; I don't have the talent or interest; I am a dolphin and I don't have hands... :)

    11. oh - one other qualifier here. some otherwise very benign beings will very easily and naturally blast humans with vibes that are meant to scare the shit out of those humans. terror that goes straight to the deepest, almost totally irresistible, biochemically triggered brain level. because these beings know exactly how to do this, and they just don't want to be bothered, for one reason or another.

    12. Satish -

      "That's what I get when I try to see it through all of your eyes at the same time. A bit dizzy. But what an interesting "meeting of the spirits" we're partaking in!"

      yes, this is truly awesome. I love it.

      "I am very cynical and skeptical and think a lot about my Earthly roots...."

      this is a very human attribute. humans naturally dislike change, and tend to like to stay in familiar places, no matter how uncomfortable or unhealthy - just because they are familiar.

      energy beings, on the other hand, are naturally, rabidly and almost unstoppably curious. it is much more our energy being natures that want us to try new things, however stupid, like building 500 nuclear reactors across the Earth, rather than our human natures!

      "Maybe we all come from different tribes that are truly created differently, composed of different types of beings?"

      in some ways very much yes, and in some ways no. variety is the spice of the Universe, though, so whatever variety is needed to make the dish work, it will be used.

    13. Mo,
      Thank you for taking the time to reply so comprehensively. I do not in any way wish to agree or disagree with your experiences and perceptions as they are uniquely your own. As our mine and all I can say is that they differ very greatly.
      Re the part with regard to entities and ascertaining their nature. I dont know if I worded it wrongly but I was talking about non corporeal beings as opposed to the "spirits" of corporeal beings. Non corporeal beings certainly can and do deceive and much worse as well. I wouldnt wish to try and negotiate the highways and byways of their "patch" without the necessary cautionary measures. A bit like in Britain where one is supposed to follow the "Highway Code" before venturing out into the traffic so to speak.

      I find it very fascinating to read of others perspectives and realities and am continually amazed at the myriad forms that they take and have taken through the ages, especially as almost two polar experiences and interpretations can be just as real for differing people and cultures :)

    14. red fox -

      yes, this is fascinating stuff indeed! the "myriad forms" of experience are as unique as the beings who have the experiences. that said, there is commonality, and I always try to find that out wherever it exists, as it can be extremely helpful.

      without knowing what you are referring to, at least a bit more, I'd have a hard time knowing where and how our experiences are different.

      "non corporeal" for example. this is really tricky without more info - there is so much that this could cover. for example, with the experience that Howard Storm had, that ogf pointed out - these were non corporeal beings, for sure. but Storm was obviously in a state of real distress, fear and anger when he attracted these beings. even then, he was suspicious of their nature, and their behavior - questioning them as to their motives, and finally refusing to go along!

      I think any other non corporeal beings, whatever they are, who truly wish to deceive are mostly aligned with the same kind of energy realm that Storm got involved in - the realm of fear, anger and control. these beings can appear on Earth, and certainly will appear in the realm where Storm was, but... how can anyone in their "right mind" be taken in by this? I just don't see it.

      the only time I got seriously sucked in was when I was already aligned with this level of energy, through my own deep internal fear and self-doubt. that was my mistake, and the only deception involved was self-deception as to just how badly I was already damaged by that energy.

      I have been tweaked (as I mentioned on NBL) with some very mischievous pranks by certain "semi-corporeal" beings in this lifetime (again, this stuff is really tricky to pin down if one doesn't have full info). but it was never malicious in any dangerous way. did they warn me in advance as to what was up? no. but that doesn't exactly mean they were out to deceive me. just their way of occasionally giving me an unmistakable "hey! we're still here!" it's always fun.

      maybe because I have already made it clear, long ago, and unmistakably, that I am not to be messed with, that any beings like this don't even try. that could possibly explain why I am not having the same kinds of experiences you are having? I don't know. I know from at least one other friend who has had a *very* unpleasant experience with a non corporeal, that the "dark side" is real that way. there was nothing deceptive about it, though - it was "in your face" horrible.

      I'd be curious to know (if you can speak of it generally) more what you are talking about. are you talking about the reports of the fairy people, and abductions, and so on? that kind of sounds like what you are getting at (venturing out, off-road, no code :) - or more heavy malicious stuff, with strongly evil vibes? just very curious!

    15. something else that is important, red fox, is the bedrock principle a being is operating on. my bedrock principle is that the Universe is not just totally benign, it is built on only One Real Thing: unconditional Love.

      if I want to pretend otherwise, on any level, I have to give my consent, on some real level, in my being.

      there is no violation of this fundamental contract possible.

      consent must *always* be given, in one form or another, on some deeper level. that is why "the dark side" is fundamentally powerless. it only exists as "play" within the One itself, and any being can step out of that play, off of that particular stage, and back into the fundamental Reality of the One - unconditional Love - at absolutely any time.

      it may be very much the plan of an energy being to have certain experiences, though, and not even the One itself can override that choice, because it is the One MAKING that choice. again, this is part of the Ultimate Contract. we really do have ultimate free will. this works to our infinite benefit, in any direction chosen.

    16. While I do not experience such a reality, mo, my experiences of healing and divine Love, and everything else, agree with you.

      I think even Christianity agrees with you. Christians may not, but Jesus was all over that Love stuff, and how it was all right Now, and Within, and don't you get who you really are, and you are God's beloved child. Think about how much you love your children, and you being evil. How much more does your father, who is only good, love you? Be perfect, just like your Creator is.

      Religion is all over all this stuff, which is why I like it.

      Truly I tell you, if you hve faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, "move from here to there," and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. Matthew 17:20

      A monk who is skilled in concentration can cut the Himalayas in two. Anguttara Nikaya 6:24

      On some level, Honey, you're making all this stuff up. Today I made it up that Puppyman started a fight with a 6-year-old unneutered Rottweiler, and I broke it up by sticking my mo-admired diamond willow walking stick between them. Now, I'm going to go make up what my made-up me thinks should be done about this. I also made it up that I was rather annoyed with my shit-for-brains neighbor for a lot of reasons.

      It's a real zombie apocalypse out there, and the walking brain-dead are dangerous. At least, that's what I made up today. On some level. :O)

    17. mo, I also agree about deception and spirits. Everything is known in that state. Before I talk about that, I would encourage you to read Howard Storm's book directly, rather than Kevin's short excerpts. Howard was narcissistic, but he loved his wife very much, and he actually died in a resigned and peaceful state at the time of his death. It was his patterns and his entire previous consciousness levels that allowed his hellish experience, not his frame of mind at the time of his death. Howard loved his wife and children very much, even before his near-death experience.

      I mentioned my own experiences with negative entities to one woman, including feeling poked by real fingers that I could not see. She responded with the same question, how do you know they were negative, etc.; maybe they were benign and playing a joke. My response was dead serious ~ benign beings don't "play jokes," I told her. (Not to be construed with a lack of humor on the part of spiritual beings.) You KNOW the nature of the spirit being when you are in its presence. And it knows you.

      Howard Storm's experience with the negative beings in his NDE was never a truly neutral experience for him. The negative entities were always vague, confusing, and evasive ~ a negative vibration level. They were always lost in foggy distance, never clearly revealed. It took very little for Howard Storm to see their true nature. He was not confused for long by them. However, his prior refusal to "believe" in anything good and loving and beautiful caused him to try to meet what he believed were his needs through the deceptions of the negative beings. That is different from being at their level.

      In fact, we all do it all the time, and the great religious myths of the world all point to the fact that doing that exact thing is how we got here to begin with.

    18. hi ogf -

      that is some wild fun that made-up you is having with breaking up a dogfight. :) I hope it wasn't too serious for either Puppyman or the Rott? no damage? the fact that Puppers started it does possibly point to a need for training. glad you are having an interesting made-up day. I've had some doozies. '-) really bad writing was involved, too. I just hope my acting was up to snuff. sure felt convincing to me!

      I am sure you are right about the importance of the larger picture with Howard. Kevin was getting at some of that, but he also had this, which seemed like a direct quote:

      "Now knowing what was happening, I became upset. I started yelling and screaming at my wife, and she just sat there like a stone. She didn't look at me, she didn't move – and I kept screaming profanities to get her to pay attention. Being confused, upset, and angry, I tried to get the attention of my room-mate, with the same result. He didn't react. I wanted this to be a dream, and I kept saying to myself, "This has got to be a dream.""

      screaming and cursing, being confused, upset and angry were all probably a necessary part of the stew, along with his previous patterns, that brought on the experience. of course that is speculation. only Howard knows for sure. with all of this stuff, it is immensely complex. you can count on the fact that he relates it so powerfully, and broadly, as being critically important to the actual fact of having the experience in the first place. but this is me guessing the mind of the One. not advisable! it could actually be the complete opposite - that Howard's public relation of the experience has no bearing on anything in particular, one way or another...

      "You KNOW the nature of the spirit being when you are in its presence. And it knows you."

      this has always been my experience. even with my terror at what my dear friend (and he is the most dear friend possible) was saying to me with his question - "Who are You? - the terror was my own internal fear of knowing myself, on the level that he was insisting was necessary. I knew the whole time I was with him that he meant me only the greatest Love possible. it radiated out of him, with brilliant clarity, even though he was beyond a scary-ass freak with me at the time, and it was our very first face-to-face meeting in this lifetime.

      drama. it's what's for dinner.

      and your other points are all very well taken. thanks for being another dear friend, ogf.

    19. "It took very little for Howard Storm to see their true nature. He was not confused for long by them. However, his prior refusal to "believe" in anything good and loving and beautiful caused him to try to meet what he believed were his needs through the deceptions of the negative beings. That is different from being at their level."

      also wanted to make really, emphatically clear that I agreed with this. Howard was most definitely NOT at their level. far from it, in his deeper essence. he was only confused enough to follow along just because he was desperate for some kind of help. this experience is really fascinating, because the beings we so obviously trying to suck him in, as fast as possible, before he could catch on even a little bit more. but he was catching on right from the beginning.

    20. It's true that in his confusion, Howard wrote that he screamed and cursed at his wife, who could not see him. But then, there's Ned Dougherty, who wrote "Fast Lane to Heaven," who was running a nightclub, dealing drugs, a user of people, especially women, and was in a murderous rage at someone over a comment about drugs and was strangling him to death when Dougherty had a massive heart attack and died. He went straight to a Heavenly experience, where people were cheering him on and welcoming him like the biggest party in the universe.

      How does "it" work? I don't know. I have no idea. I only know what I have experienced.

    21. Hi mo, I don't fully follow when you say, "it is much more our energy being natures that want us to try new things, however stupid, like building 500 nuclear reactors across the Earth, rather than our human natures!" So it's not humans who built those things?

    22. Mo,

      I really appreciate your replies to me , and I realise that things are not black and white, goodie, baddie. I understand (intellectually and emotionally) what you are saying and have experienced "reality" myself in its myriad of nuances. It's just what you call energy beings that I can't relate to. I probably haven't experienced them, ever
      The point is to be truly honest here. That is what makes this space so interesting and safe. And now that Lidia is here too...I'm pleased.

      From what you say, you're experienced levels I never have. It's not that I am held back by fear. If you knew me in person, your would sense immediately that I'm anything but fearful. Really, I've always been courageous and very curious, even as a child. Maybe a human spirits just connects where it needs to be connected. Maybe yours is just different to mine and Red Fox's, for instance? Whether it's more aware or more is a completely different question.
      I'm absolutely fascinated by your all-encompassing vision, but as I said mine is stuck on this Earth, and I'm very happy with that. I'm happy that I've had a chance to live and connect in the way I can, really I am. My garden (and the landscape beyond) is already so beautiful, that I get a high each time I look at it, even now, when it's raining too much outside and I'm stuck here in front of the laptop. This is the joy I feel our ancient tribal ancestors felt, when there was plenty of everything around, life brimming over. This is my vision, the one that gets me out of the human-made world and makes me fly. The greatest high, I think. My little patch, my community of plants and animals tells me how to keeping this going, invites me to partake over and over again. I know it's not really "my" patch. Nonetheless, it feels like that because it has made me welcome and shows me affection in all sorts of ways.

      Here, my vision connects me to all life forms, truly, and in a way that gets better and better with practice. Living, feeling like that has kept me a very healthy person, in spite of my inherited ailments. I can live with them, treat them myself quite successfully. Therefore, it's easy for me to keep away from the health care provision. Apart from the dentist and eye care I don't have to bother which makes me quite unusual among my peer group. And more and more younger people too!
      I've taken responsibility for myself and trust the plants I've got to know so well. I really do think of them as my friends, true friends who are there for me. This is one thing I've proven to myself, and for that experience alone, I'm glad I'm alive.

      Everybody else, I'm not an Earth goddess. As an archetype, you'd imagine her as a voluptuous being with long dark hair, or maybe a beautiful red. Well, I'm the opposite, slim, small (5 foot 3 inches), pale, blue eyes and with still naturally fair straight hair. Earth goddesses never look like that. Mind you, Botticelli's Venus has my colour hair. It's a colour quite common in Northern Italy. When I go to Italy, people often speak to me In Italian, thinking I'm a native. Germanic or Nordic is not what I look like. Maybe a bit Slavic but in no way like an Earth goddess, even though I would mind that all.

      Nice to see you here Lidia, and Shep too.

      Easter is the time of accelerating growth in the Northern Hemisphere. This waxing moon phase (full moon tomorrow) has really brought all plants along. They respond powerfully to the time around full moon at this time of the year. You can almost hear them growing. Another season, what else could I want... The birds know it too. I'll be out a lot, enjoying it. No more rain here for a few day from tomorrow.

    23. Sabine,
      Your comment above just encapsulates what I feel. The trouble I have is that when im writing/typing it sometimes comes out as borderline bot speak. This isnt me at all, it's just that it just comes out that way. I try to use few words and sometimes what I write may come across as somewhat detached. So, I appreciate your capabilities in being able to articulate your views and feelings so well.

      Very interesting replies again from you. I am not very comfortable in detailing any subjective and /or "paranormal experiences to be honest. My own feeling (and it does not apply to anyone else unless they want it to) is that these things should be kept between oneself and the other beings unless in a very general way. I think, the only time I posted on the forum about a personal event was the "wolf story" and that was really just to get Ulvfugl's view on it. In retrospect it would have been better to have kept it to myself unless in areal life verbal conversation. All I will say is that my limited number of experiences and interpretation of same puts them a fair distance away from your own views-that, perhaps is how it should be.
      You made a point and comparison with the moon. My view is that the moon is, as far as we can tell without getting bogged down in semantics, objectively real. My personal encounters with Otherworld beings is subjectively real and only applicable to me. Does that partially answer your question?

    24. Just a couple of other things that came to mind. Re OGF's and Mo's recognition of a creator or "one". This is not something I recognise. I have no belief in a creator or of a unifying one other than the conglomeration of all Life; discrete entities, the animating principle. I dont believe these originate from a conscious entity or source. My own view is that all Life together is "All" and Life itself just is and is unexplainable in a metaphysical sense. It may well be that this view is a manifestation of my antipathy towards religion and especially the relatively recent monotheisms that are obsessed with a single unifying source; not unlike scientistic thinking!
      I noticed earlier Mo, that you referred to the One as "he" or was that just that particular being and not the One you refer to?

      Satish and Mo!
      Satish asked about energy beings in regard to the nuclear question. I dont see how a humans energy being nature would mean that it would investigate such catastrophes as splitting the atom. Also, how would one extrapolate that to the 10,000 or so other human cultures who did NOT want to proceed along this path? Are some energy natures more curious and less developed than say some foragers nature? Surely, if one recognises an energy nature then wouldnt that nature necessarily be above all that physical plane stuff and tinkering (tongue in cheek...perhaps!). I'm serious though, I do not quite get the scenario here.

    25. Red Fox,

      I don't ever think of yourself as a bot. I can read between the lines in your comments quite easily. Loud and Clear!

      Your view that "all Life together is All and that Life itself just is and is unexplainable (not "pin-downable") in a metaphysical sense" (or, indeed in a physical sense). That's very well explained and precisely how I feel it too.

      But I alwaysl like to hear what everybody else experiences and relates here. I'm always curious enough.

      See Lidia, we're not a tribe here.
      "Tribe" is just metaphorical as in "people who meet on some levels of understanding and experience". No more no less.
      But in that sense "tribe" is as good a word as any other. So I'm OK with it. No in and out-groups. This label is just convenient in psychology which was invented (IMO) and made into a "serious" science for labelling humans in the first place.

      No axes to grind, no egos to boost.

    26. some the various levels of consciousness and experience:

      human animal, includes:
      – all states of consciousness dealing with animal/bodily needs, focus and fears, many of these states are continuously underway below the level of normal waking consciousness

      soul within and melded with human animal, includes:
      – normal waking consciousness and awareness
      – states of unconsciousness including anesthesia, non-dreaming sleep, unconsciousness due to injury

      soul more or less free from human animal, includes:
      – many dream states
      – OBEs
      – many meditation states and other states of inner-focused concentration

      soul completely free from human animal, includes:
      – states where communication occurs between soul and other souls, or soul and other Light Beings. many of these states are continuously underway above the level of normal waking consciousness
      – states when recently free of body after death. many of these states overlap with states that are similar to states above that occur while still melded with the human animal, as the soul, while aware of human bodily death, has not yet been fully re-absorbed by the totality of its Light Being

      soul in its complete, total Energy Being state, includes:
      – states completely free of habituated and reflexive responses from being melded with human animal
      – states where the soul consciously chooses to use its abilities to recreate experiences similar to states it experienced while incarnated
      – zillions of states that have no relation to anything we are (more or less) familiar with in the above various states

      note – there are several facts that must be appreciated to understand just how complex this question of “consciousness” can get:

      – the energy of the soul is holographic in nature. this means the “total” soul can divide itself in all kinds of ways, and each part is still fully individual, with individual experience, memory and so on.

      – while each part can be individual, the mercurial aspects of its holographic nature also allows a soul to meld with other souls, and share their experiences from “the inside”

      – some of the “lower” (this lower/higher thing is not really accurate, but descriptive within the scheme above) levels of awareness are generally aware only of themselves.

      – many of the higher levels of consciousness are simultaneously aware of multiple other levels, on their same level, levels above, and levels below.

      – this simultaneous nature of experience, and the ability to know multiple levels at once, is as natural to the higher levels of experience as our sensory experience is natural to being part of a human animal.

      – there are hundreds of gradations, overlapping levels and states within the above scheme.

      – there is communication going on all the time between different levels within your Being, and between your Being on its multiple levels and other Beings on their other levels.

      – much, if not all, of this communication is experienced as one complete individual communicating with another complete individual. this is done for reasons of clarity – the messages are important, and the need for the message is specific to the “individual” at that level.

      – on the highest levels of Being, at the level of Energy Being and above, these messages are integrated into more of a “total experience” – along with the rest of the experiences from each level.

    27. reposted the comment from NBL that I had mentioned to Satish earlier. few changes Energy Being = Light Being, vice versa.

      the most key thing to understand is that ALL of these levels are operating in YOUR being, right now. red fox, you are just as much Energy Being to me, in a totally real way, right now, as human being. you and I could be having an intense conversation right now, on that level, and neither of us would be at all conscious of it on our waking consciousness level. whatsoever. just the way it is. we may get an "inspiration" or "vibe" somehow on our waking consciousness level, and that could very well be spillover from something very real going on on a different level. we will know for sure when we can both "talk" about it, and compare notes, on the totally integrated level.

      no, I would never refer to the One as "he" or "she." :) that particular "he" I was referring to was a specific spirit.

      you on every Being level, are just as real to me as the moon. there is no objective "moon out there" any more or less than my otherworldly energy being spirit is "out there"

      as mentioned on the NBL forum:

      extraterrestrial = intraterretrial
      intraterretrial = extraterretrial

      this is my working reality, and the working reality of all beings I work with on the spirit level (which frequently spills over onto the earth plane). it works this way for me all the time. there is only "inside." we can experience it as "outside" or "objective" if we want to, but it is ALL inside the One.

      and good heavens, no. you never sounds like a bot here!

      Satish - this is what I am getting at with my comment that our energy being natures are behind the desire to build nukes, and all kinds of other crazy shit. our nature there is intensely curious. this has always been the case. the human animal nature might get off on the pleasant feeling of "high" from some mushrooms or plants, but the energy being nature is the one who is getting off on talking with the spirit of Aya, and questioning, testing and working with that spirit. right now, many energy beings are getting off on engineering all kinds of marvelous things, that our human animals can walk over to, and flip a switch, or touch a screen, and go "wow. cool."

    28. spell check

      extraterrestrial = intraterrestrial
      intraterrestrial = extraterrestrial

    29. Mo,
      Re your reply to Satish above. The thing I have trouble with is what I asked earlier. It is not human nature or to use your paradigm "our energy being natures" to be intensely curious. It is relatively recent in SOME human people to behave this way. Otherwise how would one account for the lack of said intense curiosity amongst the vast majority of humans that have ever lived (excepted is the curiosity and trial and error in sustaining ones daily mode of life) and those currently (just) existing non civilised people who have no desire to regress (ie in civ parlance "advance")?
      Your previous post I will get back to after I've had my dinner :)

    30. Mo,
      Thank you for the previous reply above detailing your own paradigm with regard to consciousness. I have seen similar views before in the Hinduism I mentioned. The exception being the notion of a holographic nature of soul which I remember reading in Michael Talbot's "The Holographic Universe".
      I was also interested to see your take on shapeshifting (?)-the ability to experience another beings nature. So how would you ascertain as to whether a particular non human species was willing to allow a "walk in" or a melding of soul stuff? Or a you referring to spirit flight controlled by active imagination?
      This is all really interesting stuff but being a hopeless reductionist I still see and experience things in more simpler terms :0)
      I still believe the moon is objective reality however, ha ha!

    31. Sabine -

      I am really enjoying our discussion!!

      "This is the joy I feel our ancient tribal ancestors felt, when there was plenty of everything around, life brimming over. This is my vision, the one that gets me out of the human-made world and makes me fly. The greatest high, I think."

      wow. you said it, sister! this is the only joy there is for me, the simple joy of life brimming over! the greatest high ever. I've always felt this, as have you.

    32. red fox -

      great questions! well, we get our energy being nature from the One - directly - and the One is infinitely curious. it will try anything and everything, eventually. the shaman weren't just "experimenting with plants" - they were going as deeply far into the spirit world as possible, and discovering as much as possible that could be of help. this is the energy nature of the One at work. going ALL OUT. going to the ends of its ability (while in the form of a unique energy being). this is not relatively recent at all.

      yes, we have new things going on the last 10,000 - 20,000 years. where is that coming from? the only place *anything* comes from. the infinitely curious nature of the One, expressed in its manifestation of an infinite range of beings, with an infinite range of desires.

      my shapeshifting is only one form of what is possible. there is a whole range of things there that can happen. I never recall actually being invited or refused invitation with any being I have "been one with." it just happens. what I *do* know is that this experience probably wouldn't happen, ever, or I wouldn't be aware of it, at all, unless I was completely comfortable with what I am on the energy being level.

      as soon as you meet a being that can make the full moon totally disappear, right as you are looking at it, you will know there is nothing objective about it, whatsoever. :) until then...

    33. Satish, I replied over at NBL to part of your long comment.. the part about energy gradients.

    34. as far as "spirit flight" - yes, this is what is going on. what happens is during sleep, I take off (on that level of consciousness that in the "soul more or less free from human animal" level above) and end up, somehow, merged with another being so I am experiencing everything that being is experiencing, on its level of awareness.

      I am *not* aware of this on my human level of consciousness, until I become lucid, or I start to wake up (just barely starting to move into the "soul within and melded with human animal" level).

      then the experience of where I am in my merged state is overlapping with conscious experience on my human animal level. I know I am a human who is also merged with another animal. and I know I am also an energy being split across human animal, and whatever other animal I am also living as.

      this is our natural ability as energy beings - both simultaneous multi-level existence, and simultaneous multi-level awareness. this is as natural for energy beings as your five senses are natural for your human animal. the reason this is natural is that it is the most natural thing for the One. it is living, and being aware of, everything at once.

    35. Hi Lidia, good to see you here... I read your response to my comment on energy gradients. Will reply on NBL today. BTW, your skepticism about the priorities of those in charge of world affairs matches mine.

    36. Sabine, you have changed your mind???
      My reply there seems to have been censored, so I won't re-iterate it.

    37. Hi Lidia, there's no moderation or censoring on this site... I'm not sure why your comment didn't appear... I did get a notification by email when you made your comment. This sort of thing has happened before... Mark's comment was lost once. Would you like me to post your comment? I have it in my email.

    38. Lidia - your comment is there. click to view.

      if you are not going by direct link, you have to click "Load more..." at the bottom of the page to see it in the thread, along with all the other comments past 200 count. only the first 200 comments initially load in a Blogger post.

    39. Mo, I think that you may have misunderstood me or rather I didnt frame it very well. The curiosity thing with regard to technical innovation at the cost of Life is very recent and is very specific to certain human beings, not all. Foragers in now remote locations didnt for example proceed along the technical devolutionary path; they kept to stone tools. These tools evolved extremely slowly. I dont put this technical curiosity down to metaphysical reasons but to physical reasons. A certain bunch of people who saw and see the capability to do something as the NEED to do something, because they can, with utter disregard for other lives. This is indicative of a pathology, psycho or social, however you want to frame it.

      Shamans, or their non Siberian equivalents were more concerned with healing and soul retrieval and only ventured into other realms as a last resort as far as my understanding goes. Reactive to the circumstances of an individual member of the band or the band as a whole rather than pro active.

      I particularly enjoyed your interesting account of spirit flight, it has some similarities to the witchcraft tradition which I am extremely interested in :)

    40. hey rad fox :)

      I *think* I got where you were coming from. yes! absolutely there is pathology there. no doubt about that at all. it can be an extreme sickness.

      but, just like a brain cancer taking down an otherwise beautiful, promising, 23 year old life - where does that pathology come from?

      the cancer, whether literal cancer, a energy-being-human-being-soul cancer, or a collective cultural cancer, can only come from One thing.

      does this mean the rest of us, who are NOT consumed by cancer, who are also intimately part of the One, but who still know what *health* is, just stand by and watch? no way! as I have mentioned, there is so much going on that we are not remotely aware of. who knows where it is all going? I sure don't know.

      any shaman or witch worth his or her salt was out there proactively working. training themselves, learning the traditions, and making their own totally unique contributions. humans did not just suddenly morph into creative, unique beings in the last few thousand years. we have been like this since the beginning. one good look at an ancient cave painting makes this very clear.

      there is no way humans could have spread out across every corner of the globe, learning all the nuance and detail of what was necessary to learn with each new water, each new land, unless they could be totally proactive. we were once only in Africa. we ended up on islands way out in the middle of the deep blue sea. many incredibly important discoveries had to happen to get from one place to the other. stellar-solar-moon-current-wind-earth-everything-BUT-a-compass-or-GPS open water navigation alone was (and still is) a deeply complex and intuitive art and science. no one figured that out without doing tons of very proactive research.

      really glad you enjoyed my accounts of spirit flight and the animal-merger experiences. tbh, this is one of the MOST powerfully wonderful kinds of experience I ever have. there is nothing remotely like it in other parts of my energy being, or human being, experience. I very much appreciate the witchcraft tradition this way! oh yes. :)

    41. I still feel that we are talking at cross purposes! You stated earlier if I remember correctly that it is the energy beings nature to be curious to the utmost which leads to nukes etc etc. I dispute this :)
      Curiosity is one thing but unbridled innovation without considering consequences is something totally different. and, it really only was one culture out of many who took that path. At its commencement it would have been very much a minority pursuit so I definately do put it down to physical/mental reasons. That said, there is an occult tradition which some British (and US) clans of witchcraft buy into; namely that the offspring of the first Smith, Tubelo/Lucifer was the "teacher" of humans with regard to "progress" and metals. that begs the question as to why he didnt teach all of humanity, just a few middle eastern tribes ;)
      I have to disagree with your take on witchcraft and possibly early shamanism. Witchcraft especially is very reactive and the real practitioners do not venture into other realms without having specific reasons. I dont include physical converse between the witch and other non human physical beings, plants, animals, familiars and so on; that is different.

      There is some justification for the view that SOME humans did actually "explode" with a form of malignant culture that instigated, art, number, agriculture (not horticulture), religion. European cave art is a possible sign evidencing this sudden emergence of culture ( I remain unconvinced). I do however believe that Late Paleolithic figurines evidence it. All this begna relatively recently in the human sojourn.

      A side issue: have you read "Darker Than You Think" by Jack Williamson? You may enjoy it. It is a fictional account of shapeshifting and was a big influence on Jack Parsons the "rocket scientist" and his attempt to incarnate a physical manifestation of Babalon. He believed he succeeded with Marjorie Cameron and he certainly met his end in an apocalyptic way-his is an interesting story as is his version of witchcraft. I digress though!

  29. Sometimes, I am conscious of where I am, location-wise, in the Universe and I say to myself, "what a grand set-up that my location is this tiny spot in this tiny city, in this valley on this continent on this planet in this corner of the galaxy and so on... finally slowed down in my thoughts as I feel the vastness. Sometimes I am conscious of the journey of my life, as if I'm looking at a picture book that covers all the years....

    A universe of insights flowing from Satish. Reading thru everything at bedtime, I feel a bit silly for saying anything - he's really said it all. Just have to listen. Let it sink in. All I need to say is THANK YOU before we say it all over and over again. ( I see MO dancing with robo-wolves)

  30. Satish said: "Apparently we also cut down 100 Million trees every year to make paper for junk mail. I don't know how it is in Britain, Sabine, but here, it's a constant barrage of useless advertisements in the mail every week." This stuff haunts me. I'm counting dumpsters rather than sheep trying to go to sleep. I know it's the same waste in Vancouver Canada. Forget the paper. How about all the factories making the ink. Oh but I promised I would not stir up issues. Back to sleep with all the sheep walking over halls filled with phone book yellow pages...a billion numbers but no one to call on for a bit of sense.

    1. When I was growing up in India, our "trash can" was so small it would fit on the palm of my hand. There was hardly any plastic and we washed and reused all plastic bags as many times as we could before they tore. Same with paper. Old newspapers became food packaging. It's not the same anymore.

  31. Artleads,
    Those two posts were interesting. Im surprised that you said you find things more interesting than creatures. My own view is opposite to that. I would be more than happy to see every human constructed artifact destroyed including such iconic monuments to power as the Pyramids, Vatican, Stonehenge. Personally made small "natural" artifacts like stone tools I dont include of course; to me they are similar to birds nests or any other construction used by our relatives.
    Perhaps it's my younger GA days coming to the fore again! "For the destruction of civilisation" as the banner said ;)

    1. Red Fox,

      Thinking about your question... I now believe I'm seeing all life forms as the real "set" to which humans belong, although we're used to thinking of non human life as being quite distinct. That's the curse of civilization, perhaps. But cave art appears to mix all the living types together--humanoids with bird heads, for instance. (And the Graham Harvey video explicated this.) So it's maybe that I'm saying that other life forms are very close relatives, all living "persons." All for one and one for all.

      But I also see it as civilization's curse to ignore things--in the universal scheme of things, isn't it "blasphemous" to belittle anything? I and my animal family have concerns for our wellbeing. But the supposedly non living might comprise a different "set" of personhood. As I described with my earlier truck story, things can be called upon for help and guidance. If I treat an object roughly and without love, banging it around, something different happens from when I treat it tenderly and thoughtfully. I prefer the latter scenario.

      Be careful about tearing down things. Why does ISIS also tear down things? For control? But did those things belong to them, or did they instead belong to the spirits who built them? What can we learn when we obliterate the past?

      And what about the embedded energy in ANYTHING that has been constructed? Isn't that energy to be conserved as well? I can't split up energy into different categories--cultural energy, technical energy, solar energy. For simplicity, I lump them together. Given the extraordinary energy impacts of fossil fuel (which, for me, correlates to that lumped-together energy whole of my thinking) there is not one drop of energy of any sort to be wasted. There is no land to dump the things we tear down. Take away all the inputs of civilization, and we wander around like babies in diapers left in the woods to fend for themselves. We need all the help we can get, wherever that help arises. Tear down what others built before, and that means you don't value their struggles. But are you better than them? How do you know? Who made you judge?

      So, I'm sorry. I get a little worked up when people talk about tearing down things. THAT is exactly the way of industrial civilization that led us to where we are today. Throw away everything. Your mother. Your father. Throw away languages. Throw away cultures. We know better. We are the judge. What I'm talking about is something different.

    2. I totally get where you are coming from, Artleads, when you write that tearing down things is how we got where we are. Amen, Bro. Stop. Stop being destructive everywhere and all the time NOW. Then do it again in the next NOW.

      That's all. It's really very simple. But it is not easy. It is harder than doing a perfect handstand. A perfect handstand is not complicated. You put your hands on the floor, lift your feet in the air, and hold it. That's all that is involved.

      But the mastery of the physical self that is required to be able to execute a perfect handstand is rare, however not at all improbable.

      So it is with our non-destruction.

      At the same time, I totally get wanting to obliterate all the unnatural, non-biological Mordor out there, and while I can really enjoy human creations, they still can never be more important than the Creator's Creation, which is Living.

      I think there is a way to do both, to stop being destructive, and to facilitate that which appears to need healing. As we begin on the right "path," which is an individual choice, not a collective one, we will be shown and will understand from within what we will need to do next.

      Regarding previous comments about identity through tribe, clan, family, there is no more "important" about any of it. The order is not predicated on importance, anymore than a tree trunk is more important than its roots or its branches and leaves. One cannot exist apart from the other, and there is no order of importance. However, there is derivation, likeness, consciousness and tradition. Like a living tree, these things are a part of each other, not separate, but not the same, either. There is no real separation. I am to my family what a finger is to a hand, and together we are the arms and heart of a larger Living system.

      In many ways, it works like a body.

      This culture is always trying to figure out how it can chop up its own body, sell its parts for magic lights and lies, and still be both happy and moral. It is very draining to live that way. Like your name is Mina, and you've got Dracula visiting every night.

    3. Right, I will try again!
      This culture, ind civ didnt get to where it is now by destroying "things". Its reason to be is build, build, builds on the dead bodies of Land and other people (human and non human). Its artefacts have usurped the "spot" of living beings and replaced them with dead things. Imo it is an almost sacred act to destroy any and all of IC's artefacts in the knowledge that one is accelerating the built in decay. Ruins are where real wild living things can re-establish themselves (think the bomb sites in London where wild flowers began to take over. What is more appealing to us?- the white house or buckingham palace standing in a fenced in manicured lawn or the rubble of said buildings blooming with flowers and trees and becoming the playground of birds of prey and wild animals?
      The thing is, all artefacts of mass production are built upon the blood of others. I dont believe for one minute that the pyramid of Giza or Stonehenge were built as a communal effort-they were built through coercion, slavery and elitist power weilding, no doubt controlling food supply.
      This culture is only intent on destroying that which lives in order to create dead artefacts. I believe that if one is living in relationship with ones land and respects the right of other living beings to share that space then their would be wish to leave a manufactured artefact or legacy as history does not exist except with the onset of a separatist, elitist mindset.
      Think and laugh at Ozymandias in the work by Shelley:

      I met a traveller from an antique land
      Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
      Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
      Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
      And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
      Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
      Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
      The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
      And on the pedestal these words appear:
      "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
      Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
      Nothing beside remains: round the decay
      Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
      The lone and level sands stretch far away

    4. Re the above-I should have said; "there would be NO wish...etc"

    5. Its reason to be is build, build, builds on the dead bodies of Land and other people (human and non human).

      Absolutely. Therein lies the Rub.

      I noticed the conversation on NBL about the value of modern medicine in connection with Guy's health experience. True, true, true. But how much of the poor health is caused by the culture to begin with? Epidemic infectious diseases from domesticating animals, blood clots from flying in airplanes, heart disease, diabetes, deformities, etc., from modern medicine?

      Why is it so difficult to imagine that tribal people might have actually lived rather long, healthy lives in the past? Touch the Earth has an account of a 17tb Century Native American who states they used to have elders who were 120 and 130 years of age. The longest lived people in the world are not in industrial civilization, but in old, stable, environmentally stable communities where they eat fresh, unadulterated foots and they walk everywhere they go.

      I've mentioned previously that as a child I knew my great-great-grandmother well! She was pretty old. She didn't know how old, but she said her earliest memories as a very, very young child were of the Civil War.

    6. OGF,

      Thanks so much for weighing in and depolarizing the discussion.

      "Its reason to be is build, build, builds on the dead bodies of Land and other people (human and non human)."

      "I think there is a way to do both, to stop being destructive, and to facilitate that which appears to need healing. As we begin on the right "path," which is an individual choice, not a collective one, we will be shown and will understand from within what we will need to do next."

      This is what I, too, believe, although I couldn't have said it as well. It's one thing to go in the name of urban renewal--some called it negro removal--and tear out human-scale, pedestrian and community oriented parts of cities, and run freeways through them, greatly facilitating the commute of suburban whites to and from the central commercial core. It's another thing to remove (as needed) paving to plant food in cities. Or removing or covering paving through planting trees. You understand it. I wish others could as well.

      So it's not just a matter of removing things; it also is what is removed. They tear out rail lines that ran electric trains, and put in roads for single-passenger cars that run on gasoline. Then sometimes they come back to the idea of trains, but now they need new rails. They tear out old parts of town and create Prince Charles's "carbuncles" 100 stories tall.

      But the trouble is, all these monstrosities have been constructed, and I'm not seeing where it makes more sense to remove rather than to modify them. This is what I mean by the item on my "list" that says, "avoid distraction." So we have time to go and remove the racist monuments of the past, just as the racists are intent on resurrecting them and removing all countervailing monument in turn?. Meanwhile, 200 species die each day, more water gets polluted, and more topsoil is washed into the sea. What are the priorities here?

      This is why, I have repeatedly stated over the last two years, that our job is to stop destroying the planet, to heal the land. Instead of protesting the wrongs of the past, might it be preferable to propose and work for the healing of the land everywhere? Those whom I would punish severely and swiftly are those who offend the land. Social justice seems to be a sub-set of the land rather than an alternative focus. You can't care about the land, then cut down the rainforest to plant soy. Or hire thugs to kill the indigenous residents who protest. You can't care about the land, then give it over to monoculture which requires slave labor. You can't care about the land if you put money first. If you care about the land, you will cooperate with your different-race neighbor who does the same. Caring about the land and genocide are incompatible. Anyway, that might just be my take on things.

      Red Fox,

      I also like bombed out buildings blooming with flowers. But that doesn't make me wish to go tear down Buckingham Palace. I would see that as neither wise nor not-a-distraction. We need to plant billions of trees around the world, not get into wrangles about symbols of Empire. We'll take them over and convert them soon enough. And if we can't, then it's goodbye for real. We are talking about very ambitious goals here. We must prevent more highways being laid--all over the world, more housing development on farmland, more fracking, more sprawl. And we must repair wetlands and replant forests.

      I'm probably over my limit, so I'll end here.

  32. red fox,

    I consider you to be one of the best contributors on this here net.

    I agree completely with destroying monuments, including all the thousands of racist statues and "named" roadways, especially in the South.

    If I may ask: GA? When, where and why?

    I was born in Atlanta, Ga. and eventually fled toward more ignorance in Alabama.

    Also, are u a Native American by chance?

    1. Yea, verily!! It gives me much happiness to see you here, shep! Please, take off your boots, sit back, and stay a while!

    2. Yes. It feels good being around positive vibes.

  33. Hi Artleads, that's an interesting perspective about creatures vs. things. Never thought of it that way. Perhaps stories are like that... they continue through generations, just like genes, almost as if they have a life of their own. The selfish gene theory even goes so far as to make it all about the gene. It's the gene's destiny to propagate itself. The creatures that carry the gene are just temporary vehicles as the gene spreads farther and wider, adapting to the new environment as it does.

    Like red fox, I have also believed in the "low footprint" way of life, living with minimal impact, casting a small shadow, disturbing little, adding little and taking little. Not that I lived it, but it seems like the way we used to live. I read somewhere that ancient tribals extracted a rather small amount of energy from the energy cycle of their land. Like 1% or so to sustain themselves. They were careful not to take any more than that. No wonder salmon were jumping out of the water into peoples' laps. All they had to do was stand around and wait for a fish to land in their lap! Isn't this what Louis C.K. was saying too, in the clip that OGF posted on NBL? There's food on the floor!

    I have been uncomfortable with the idea of "legacy". A few weeks back, at Guy's workshop in Chico, CA, there was a question the facilitators posed to everyone: what is your legacy? I couldn't quite get myself to think of leaving a legacy. I lean toward the "pack in", "pack out" approach... leave light memories.

    I like your idea of heaven... when things are going fine and everyone is in on it.

    1. Hi Satish,

      Great post on NBL today. I don't see the dancing robot anymore (which is OK with me). :-)

      I believe you and RED FOX expressed different forms of interest in my things-as-persons theory. It's only fair that I be required to dig down and think it through more. Sitting on the deck as night drew near, it took a rather long time to quiet my mind (not that I really succeeded), but all by itself the "things" started to show up for me. The Indian Red deck railing, the fleshing for the window screen, the glint of light on it from the living room light, the distant utility poles... They don't have symbolic (?) language, but they just radiate presence. It's not a great leap to go from this awareness of presence/being to corralling their support, or from that to corralling the support of the hillside and the pebbles and the weeds. If you seek, it will be given onto you. I think OGF would grok that. If you are really serious and respectful--and believe-- and ask things for their help, they drag the rest of the world into the project also. Or so it seems.

    2. Hi Artleads, that's exactly what I have been thinking about the lost art of listening. Most being and things around us don't have symbolic language as you say. I believe we used to be able to listen to what they were saying in other ways. I like how you break it down: Things and beings radiate presence. If we're tuned in, we'd first notice their presence. Secondly, it would be a little bit of extra effort to ask of them a little this or that. Like many tribal societies where people were going the little extra mile (or yard) to make their fellow tribe member's life easier, more fun, joyous, etc., the things and beings around us wouldn't normally hesitate to give us what we want.

      I think of grafting in this way... we're asking the plant to exhibit this or that property and we're patient with it... we make our intention known and listen to the best way to do a graft. We ask and over time, perhaps several years or decades, we're gifted what we asked. Perhaps a softer variety of fruit or a larger vegetable or a more nutritious strain of rice.. it's subtle and gentle, the back and forth between man and plant.

      Contrast that to genetic engineering where it's hardly subtle but overly and dangerously gross.

    3. Satish,

      I don't know if the term to us is "dialectical," a dreadful word that makes me and millions of others into pretentious intellectual wannabes. But this "speech" with things seems to be "dialectical" (if I even have a clue how to use the term) in that things, for me, "speak" only in relation to what I bring to the "conversation," They glom on to my thoughts and my concerns, yet, I think it diminishes the interaction to say that things speak only due to my internal projection, and not in "reality."

      As you so wisely discern, they speak in very gentle terms, and only usually when one concentrates on them. I also think they "know" the peril we are in--something unprecedented--and are able to come together, to work with us, if only we request it. What they can do is limited only by our imagination as to what they can do.

  34. Hey Shep!
    Glad you found Satish's "house of many colours"!
    No mate, im not A Native American. Anglo -saxon is me, living in East Anglia in Britain-the Land Of the Iceni, Boudiccas domain.
    GA refers to "Green Anarchism". When I was trying to educate myself in the '90's there were two very thoughtful, not to say belligerent zines being published. Over here it was Green Anarchist and in the US it was Green Anarchy (contributing editor was John Zerzan).
    Stick around, it's good 'ere :)

    1. Shep,
      Full archive of the US GA is here: (copy and paste it into the browser as it wont link here).

    2. Artleads,
      I just done a reply to your comment above but it did a disappearing act im afraid!
      I will get back to you though.

    3. Hi red fox, you can use the same technique to insert links here as you do on NBL...

      Here, I put the above in a hyperlink -

  35. oldgrowthforest,

    Yes. It feels real good being around positive vibes.

    1. great seeing you here, shep!

  36. Hi Satish, another fantastic essay. To me, the solution to our loss of traditional tribal association is to form new and conscious urban tribes of choice. As much as the ancestral land-based identification is a loss in some ways, I think it's also worth remembering some of the shadows that this strong tribal identification has carried with it -- the wars over land, culture, religion, etc. Being a German with very strong roots to the land (my last name means Little Boar -- so my people were definitely hanging out in the woods), moving to the much less tribal United States opened up a lot of opportunities -- enabling me to use my strong sense of belonging to something bigger than me to build intentional communities with kindreds while also maintaining the connections to my communities of birth. I really like them both, though they're very different. One feels very rooting, the other very liberating. Since my mother's maiden name is Frey, meaning free -- it perhaps makes sense that I can be both comfortable being anchored in the deep roots of land and ancestry while at the same time liberating myself from the confines these roots can bring with them.

    1. Hi Sven,

      I can definitely relate to you, being from another country. I believe Sabine does too, being German and living in the UK herself.

      "One feels very rooting, the other very liberating." - yes, very well said... I sometimes wonder if the roots we experienced while growing up in our native places were themselves somewhat different from those that were present much longer ago. They were neither in the old times nor in modern times, but somewhere in between. At least, that was the case in India and still is because the culture is caught between old ways and the new Technological age. It can be a bit confusing and tentative, without a firm foundation, to be hearing stories from grandma in the afternoon and seeing star wars in the evening on TV, to be learning English as the first language in a place where no one speaks it on the street and at home, etc.

      But we do carry many of the positive attributes of such an upbringing everywhere we go later. We have a unique perspective and we can combine the best of both worlds.

    2. Hallo Sven,

      ich habe mir gedacht, dass du Deutscher (deutscher Abstammung bist). Schön, dass du da bist. Ich bin auch noch stark verwurzelt in meiner Heimalandschaft, trotzdem ich kaum noch Verwandte in Deutschland habe. Aber die Landschaft, jetzt teilweise stark verändert und verbaut, zieht mich immer noch an.

      Sorry everybody else, I just had to write something in my native language. It looks lovely, everything underlined in red! The bot is telling me: "use English!"

      Yes Satish, we have a unique perspective and can combine the best of both words. You are a living, shining example of that.

      I, like you was brought up in the "old way" of my culture, before the globalised (American capitalist) influences took over. But I only spoke German until I started to learn English (and French) at the age of 10.
      We KNOW, intuit, that there are so many different way just by knowing two ways intimately. This experience opens a person's mind, expands it, and excludes the parochial for ever.
      Yet we love our land bases old and new (using Red Fox's apt definition) What a blessing!

    3. Sabine,

      You're absolutely red hot blazing today. Coming out of your Botticelli shell? It must be the plants...and maybe the moon. Spectacular!

  37. Lunch time reading everyone here. A feast of knowledge. Tasty contrasts. THANK YOU for all the food for thought. I'm just the little bug Satish saw on his dish last month. A flea in Puppymans ear. Chasing my tail in circles and loving the OLD GROWTH FOREST so dear. An artistic flight southwest. In SABINES healthy garden I rest waiting for the Red Fox to come. When it's all said and done - MO FLOW already knows there is no "I" of origin. "i" was an electron. An energy. A spirit returning to one.

    RED FOX your here & now words are so true: "My take is that for the moment, here, now I am a composition of the physical body and the spirit so when I look in a mirror, yes, that really is me for this moment. In another incarnation I would have been a different physical body. The spirit moulds itself around materiality when it is on the visible physical realm and I believe does something similar when not incarnated in this realm."

    Add this from SATISH - "Of course, this is just a very preliminary understanding, a very rationalistic, linear way of thinking. It will evolve as time goes on."

    Evolving. Growing. Experiencing the connections between an English Kingsley garden & an Alaska pioneer. "I'm sure that animals take this level of reality for granted. They don't try it puzzle it out because they don't have to balance reason with other ways of experiencing. Only we do by naming and labelling so we can share our views."

    "It's almost as if the ancestors never left us. They are gone from a physical standpoint but they are still around and may even visit us in dreams. Their wisdom is still accessible to us. Their stories still guide us. I also find it interesting that future generations are also thought of to already exist even if they haven't physically incarnated yet. It's the idea that future generations are watching us, and everything we're doing. They are here in spirit if not in physical form. And why not, if only talking about them or thinking of them brings them into our consciousness and makes them alive? What a beautiful way to think of the future in general"

    PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE - proof of multi-Universes for those who need it being delivered by CERN. Before Earth ever existed the language was codes. Life flowing from a wave of energy. creating + & - dualities. It's all really very simple. Absolute Light / Dark = Quadtrillion shades of grey. Nothing much to caculate except where these ultra fine shades of grey fall in a casscading colorful scale. A prisim. A kaledioscope. A cranival of facts and figures that eventually get reduced back to a singularity. Back to zero -O -o -... () oh dear what are we all doing back here? How about a big bang again. Room for the whole gang again? But let's skip the horror show, extinction out of balance tipping point thing. Think we've learned yet not to play the negative numbers to death? Positively more fun to love the energy in everything - every 1

  38. Reading back to try to catch up AND read some GOOD stuff: Who is Bot? Is that the Budster?

    1. Yeah, Bud Bot! We psycho-analyzed him a bit here.

    2. Yeah, and me, too, it appears!
      Hmm. I was pretty interested in joining the conversation about Eisenstein (read him already and reached your same conclusions), communing with bugs.. until I ran into some harsh comments which I would rather not have read. I don't recall having badmouthed any of you. Being kind and enlightened I'm sure it won't be difficult for you to return that courtesy.

    3. hey Lidia,

      just speaking for myself, I am very glad you are here, and hope you aren't too dismayed to stick around and join in. I've always enjoyed our chats, and I read pretty much everything you mention.

      well, you didn't exactly badmouth Mark, you just gave him a very hearty "fuck you" (in bold even. :) Mark not only understood where you were coming from, he was genuinely happy you felt strong enough about it to SAY something, and he said so. just even speaking up is far more than probably 99.99% of what happens anywhere.

      personally, I don't really care if people get emotional, or try and figure things out in whatever ways they want to. I don't think anyone here particularly thinks "we are better" than anyone on NBL, but the vibe is most definitely different here, and calmer here.

      please stick around.

    4. Mo Flow,

      Here's one for you!

    5. Welcome, Lidia. I hope you can stand it here. :-)

    6. mo flow, as to the "we are better" aspect.. that's not what I have read in a number of comments here. Just sayin'. It really gave me a sick feeling in my stomach, like folks were back in high school or something. People I thought were, if not friends, then at least friendly... I don't want to push it. Everyone wants to find their "tribe", which is by definition an "us vs. them" proposition. I haven't found my tribe yet, it seems. Not Jewish, but I feel like the "Wandering Jew"...

  39. MARK,

    In line with the land focus of recent posts, I have a question about land use in the general vicinity of nuclear plants. Maps, jurisdictions, government, county governance, metrics/demographics, etc. What's going on on the land within a significant radius of the plants? What are the landscapes like? Water patterns, economies, geology? Assembling this information is a very big deal, but it would give you a powerful base to work from, don't you think? Community plans for all those sites would take into account decommissioning, but also management in perpetuity, and one mode wouldn't need to rule out the alternative. Double-scenario planning, in other words. I know it sounds impossible, but I bet there are local people working on parts of such planning. And one little thing will always lead to something bigger. :-)

    1. I'd be delighted to share the radius links that are public. I was looking at the Oak Ridge radius info map today. (A new TVA plant seeks permits for region 2 in 2017.) management in perpetuity - is exactly what the national energy companies, military, FEMA & our NNSA emergency operations want. They would love a long lasting techno fix that would put their minds to rest so they could continue business as usual. That's the top priority assigned to my little team and the contractors helping us research a finding/results in Switzerland & France.

      (I do thermo-dynamic calculations for cooling system hazards. Half-life decay rates when unexpected elements enter as unforeseen factors. ratio of chemical compounds & reaction scales.) There are only 4 of us who can rapidly calculate and discern unusual particle interactions during overheating events. An example would be adding Iron ore dust into 0.2 salinity or a 606 gl chloride spill into the reactor cooling intake. I re-caculate element tables for all sorts of enhanced reactions that might happen in situations near a reactor.) Elements released in a jet crash was my first job to calculate after 9-11 just in case it ever happened again into a plant.

      Second on the list Obama personally does like the phased decommissioning plan happening in Germany. Unfortunately there is massive opposition to US reductions. Billions are invested in planning, retrofitting, uranium mining contracts, wall street refining futures....even a problem like Fukishima is a profit source. So unless the New Madrid fault line causes 5 meltdowns in a week, I doubt the next president or public will ever get too fired up about total decommissioning.

      #3 An alternative energy is discovered. Mass marketing & a thrilled public abruptly switch to something new. People seem to get excited by a new source rather than solar panels, etc. Even with a brand new mega corporate sponsored replacement system I think it will take a disaster/terror event to generate enough outcry to get an executive action enacted.

      Mathematically, out of all the potential scenarios I do understand why the least energy and effort would come from a team like mine finding the right invention. Haliburton used a patented chemical called Corexit to clump and sink the BP Gulf of Mexico oil spill. We're testing radiation "eating' dissolvants that might work in a fire valve spray. But yikes what if our nano particle compounds go on to eat everything. Covering the Earth with grey goo??? okay back to the drawing board and working on my public relations skills. Al Gore already learned you can't convince enough people to help reduce Carbon emissions. That's why all sorts of Geo-enginnering proposals are now in the works. No secret at all that the Pentagon & all Depts are preparing for the impacts of climate problems. ARTLEADS I will continue to think on community level possibilities. I appreciate finding your thoughts for help in this community "one little thing will always lead to something bigger. :-)

    2. Nothing too technical. The links info must be friendly. :-) I only do what I like, so I will pitch in if it appeals to me. This must sound very strange. Life is circling the drain, but I only do what I like. That's another one for mo flow, I suspect.

    3. ARTLEADS - I like it "heal the land. Instead of protesting the wrongs of the past, might it be preferable to propose and work for the healing of the land everywhere?" Feels great to pick up the bits. to pitch in if it appeals to me. It comes naturally. When we have the energy. Waiting in line at TSA. All of this could go. Especially the fracking freeways. But I'd preserve the best stuff. Sorta like having Mayan ruins & Mesa Verde to appreciate. I'm still wondering if you know Red Top diner in Edgewood New Mexico? Red Top was/is a little whitewashed adobe gem from the route 66 era of classic diners. You might have missed my reply to your excellent carwash recount the other day. All my best.

    4. Hi Mark, I'm very interested to see Red Top Inn, the little adobe with the Rt. 66 vibes. I LOVE that sort of thing! (I missed that post of yours.)

      Don't have a clue what I'm talking about re healing the land. As with so much else (e.g., nuke plants) my comments relate to the extreme periphery of the issue. CONCEPTUALLY, I can imagine land returning to a primitive pre-modern state--however it got to that state...nurtured by native peoples or otherwise. Functioning cities can become as forest-like as the Mayan cities buried for centuries. Buildings can be so integrated into the forestry that you can't see them from the air. The denseness of the forestry can protects against storms...

      As to the nuke plants, I'm very much less informed. But something of the same principle might apply. Doing the unexpected. Always do the unexpected. All the energy is now on DIRECT action--technical solutions that include shutting down plants (as awesome to contemplate as anything else). I suspect there is little attention to INDIRECT action--land use and community planning in the vicinity of the plants, relating to the people who plan to be there indefinitely, training those people to contemplate what the implications are for their neighboring plants, getting their ideas, getting them involved, training them in related technology. If everything goes bust all at once, you have no line of contact beyond the plant's radial vicinity. The cavalry won't come to the rescue. Are communities in the vicinity prepared to handle that? This all has to do with the sociological or human aspects of the issue, and that are (IMO) very seriously overlooked. The sociological doesn't rule out the technological; it merely balances it.

      Back to the land. I have tendency to believe that things that are obvious to me are obvious to all. But maybe it's so not obvious that I must try again to make my point. As per my earlier posted "list," I'm proposing a reductive (?) process that imposes laser-like focus only on one thing, the land. If the land is healthy, it will feed and nurture living creatures. (Spiritually, it is compelling to juxtapose healthy land right up next to nuke plants, BTW--don't just say no to the bad; say yes to the good.) Avoid distraction, and anything but healing the land (or allowing it to heal itself) is distraction. I'm suggesting ridding ourselves of all epistemological (?) baggage--as per the principle with a listing plane with one wing. We propose the principle that nothing whatsoever matters as much as how one jurisdiction's land relates to the neighboring jurisdiction's land. Land, land, land, nothing but land. One might also say, watersheds, watersheds, watersheds, nothing but watersheds. A watershed lecturer explained that rancher, environmentalists, fishermen, forest people, hilltop people, plains people all get along surprisingly well when they are discussing watershed planning, for that relates to the water they all require to survive. Take the emphasis off religion, culture, politics, race. None of this matters essentially.

      Well maybe I misspoke. Maybe decommissioning nuclear plants matter just as much as land. But maybe the two are more closely related than we think.

  40. Hi LIDIA, delighted you might be around here. This is where we are all at home having a fireside chat. NBL is work day stuff. A MILLION THANKS TO YOU on NBL. As I said in resopnse still posted on NBL "Thank You" about the need for total decommissioning. Sadly your response followed by Amy Pike were the replies after I posted there several times about the odd job of NRC, Pentagon, HS still working on a large scale safety plan.

    I read you often on NBL so I know you are smart enough to already understand all the stupid underlying issues. Economics. Corruption. Denial. DR. McPHERSON has covered the multi meltdown problem during pending crisis. Guy knows myself & my father when he was in Congress. It is total hubris & insanity that anything & everything Nuclear has gone this far. But I can't go back in time. Personally my only concern is for plants and animals suffering thousands of years of mutations after humans are gone. As you mentioned radioactivity even eats cement. It is the longest lasting thing humans will leave behind.

    Out of 7.3 billion people on Earth I only know of a few hundred worldwide working for any level of nuclear plant reduction. Except for Germany decommissioning, Post Fukishima concern has faded. In the USA we get lot's of hate & anger for even bringing up as a public issue. At work some Energy corporations are lured by the piggyback superfunds. Nuclear weapons, Hospital equip & everything other is beyond my scope or Dept. Realistically the best I could do in this lifetime is maybe make some progress in the USA. Less is better than none. Yankee plant, San Onofre & Zion are shutdown. Maybe Hanford by next year.

    My mother got fucked by the 1962 Nevada atmospheric tests before I was even born. OLD GROWTH FOREST's grandfather also died due to radiation in the 11 western states. Anger, action, aliens we will take any answer from anywhere for a less radioactive future. For now the red, black & green consequence management notebooks sit on my desk at As far as I know the people at the top of all power structures & pyramids are supported by a base. Some Kings & Queens have lost their heads due to crowds of people. But I'm fine working this one out alone for now. I'll take all the blame for all past wars transgressions & things still unsolved. I'm still learning how to ask for any sort of help in just the right way. Maybe I'll figure out an answer while I still care....or wtf maybe not.... (ten thousand years of radiation might even stop human souls from returning to this planet. Radiation is a hash cure for cancer when natural methods fail.)

    1. Hi Mark,

      I just read a story about the successful opposition to a nuclear plant in the early 60s in Northern CA. Here's a short video about it -

      The guy says something similar to what I said the other day here in a comment: if we imagined that our future generations were here, just not in physical form, like some indigenous cultures imagined, we'd do things a lot differently.

    2. Satish - your amazing post on NBL today was breathtaking. You are a force of nature. Wish you were president of my peaceful alternate universe. You'd be the best at reminding all the Avatar spirits over there the legend & lessons of what went wrong here.
      I'll watch the Nothern Cal doc next then sleep on it. The Senator from VT wants jobs for the 800 Yankee plant workers or re-start the reactors rather than move forward with the actual decommissioning process. I kept thinking of your roots to how did a billion years of evolution turn into greed & job negotiations over common sense. Thanks from a world of readers for being the guru google guy goingSANE.

    3. "Al Gore already learned you can't convince enough people to help reduce Carbon emissions."
      Significantly, Al Gore was not in public office at the time he chose to air his concerns.

      Mark (Marc?), you already indicate that -in your world- "leaders" have no intention of doing anything but leading from behind.

      Fascism already rules the day, though, so why not get serious about it? The gov. can do any sort of rationing it wishes to with a minimum of PR. It has already got people throwing money at boondoggles like solar and wind, with its dead-end subsidies. It got people to back the Gulf Wars with a few adroit lies from the staff (I'm lookin' at you, Colin Powell) and some masturbatory flattery of the staff of the NYT ("aspens"!!!). It has got people to fetishize and kow-tow to anything military. It has got people falling over themselves to hand money to private insurers upon pain of civil and criminal punishment.

      Don't tell me the government "can't".

      Mussolini made the trains run on time. He forested a barren asbestos mountaintop in the area in which I lived, and in doing so made it snow there, enough to sustain a ski resort, at least back then. The Chinese (with money from the World Bank) have spent half a billion and have tentatively rejuvenated a huge, human-created dust bowl on the Loess Plateau.

      "The government" can do anything it wants to do. Don't play me.
      The question is, what does it CHOOSE to do. Right now, it chooses to punt -to draw a blank- on nuclear concerns. That's its choice, not the people's choice.. as though the people's choice actually mattered after 60 years of aggressive lobbying, hand-in-glove with the USG since the 1950s, that nukes are not just fine and dandy, but essential.

      Sorry for the aggressive tone again right off the bat here, not intending to harsh anyone's mellow, but.... jeeeeeeezzzzzzz!!!

    4. VT Yankee is not shut down, just planned to be. Entergy will wriggle out of actual decommissioning, which is, anyway, projected to take 60 years as a best-case scenario. "Saf-Store"!!. They want to pillage the decommissioning fund. We don't have sixty years. They must know this. How do they sleep at night?

    5. LOVE me I totally get you. And your right to call me out on the Al Gore bit. Sometimes Guy McPherson also gets frustrated sounding about ignored warnings.

      As OLD GROWTH FOREST once said: "They Kill people like us" I'm almost beyond anger so I appreciate yours. I've go days when I'm ready to go all Snowden and mass mail the really scary shit...but SATISH has given me much more level advice. Your perspective and frank truth is about the same as my inner voice. THANKS THANKS THANKS.

      Be bold: I'm just a nerd (I do thermo-dynamic calculations for cooling system hazards. Half-life decay rates when unexpected elements enter as unforeseen factors. ratio of chemical compounds & reaction scales.) There are only 4 of us who can rapidly calculate and discern unusual particle interactions during overheating events. An example would be adding Iron ore dust into 0.2 salinity or a 606 gl chloride spill into the reactor cooling intake. I re-caculate element tables for all sorts of enhanced reactions that might happen in situations near a reactor.) Elements released in a jet crash was my first job to calculate after 9-11 just in case it ever happened again into a plant.

    6. Mark - I am sure that what Lidia is getting at is something that is much more the important reality to focus on. not "planned decommissioning" but the idea that there needs to be an emergency plan for wide-scale rapid shutdown and safe storage. this is a big difference. of course, there could be any number of things in between, like with a German phase-out, etc. I think you have mentioned here that there are plans kicking around for coordinating things like wide-scale, rapid emergency shutdowns. and the next idea there would "the govt" making the necessity for these plans foremost in the public's mind.

      Lidia is right, to me at least, about the ways govt can move things *quickly.* this happened in WW2, obviously. where/when/how/who can do this NOW, or as soon to NOW as possible, is the question. and with people like James Hansen (who is considered a radical extremist of course by the "AGW isn't happening" crowd) actually pushing MORE nukes as part of the answer, this makes this MORE radically stupid than is already the case.

      "They must know this. How do they sleep at night?"

      I am certain "they" know all kinds of things. like the necessity of wide-scale emergency shutdown plans. humans can become comfortable enough to sleep in even the most extremely dire situations. it is short-term survival mechanisms at work.

  41. VT Yankee shut down at 12:12pm On Dec 29 2014
    Docket # 05000271
    call Diane Screnci 610-337-5330

    $37 million in disconnect funds pending this week

    1. Mark.. I used the word shut-down incorrectly. I mean, yes, it's shut down, but it isn't all that much safer than if it were operating, is it? How long do the cooling systems need to keep working to keep the spent fuel from melting down? Years and years.. how many?

      "Entergy has agreed to begin decommissioning 120 days after a decommissioning trust fund grows enough to cover the entire $1.2 billion estimated cost of decommissioning. Entergy says decommissioning will begin by 2052 or sooner."

      There is no way that company will be around in 2052, even if we are.

      TPTB understand the mechanisms underlying corporations. They understand the "virtuous" business cycle of declaring bankruptcy and then turning around and picking up assets at pennies on the dollar, if there are any. Here, private energy companies suck up the income streams on assets owned, financed and/or insured by the public, and when they walk away, the public has to pick up the tab.

      All this fol-de-rol about Entergy amassing a billion-dollar fund is pure hot air, and everybody involved must know it.. they must! In 2052, if there even are dollars, a billion dollars will buy you a can of Coke.

      It's a criminal enterprise and never was anything less.

      "just in case it ever happened again into a plant."

      Well, considering the fact that Bush was handed a report telling him that planes were likely to strike important tall buildings.. and then planes struck important tall buildings (regardless of whether that caused their collapse).. I would consider this to be predictive. You heard it first here, folks. :-)

    2. Switching to the I-ph now as I leave the Dept of Energy to ride the metro one stop to Crystal City. Regan airport shuttle.

      Sorry I'm not good at english writing. I used to speak Spanish & I was born a semi-deaf mute. But I'm okay texting on a train with chains of quantum figures dancing in my head.

      LIDIA - you say everything I'd like too & literally can't. "I would consider this to be predictive. You heard it first here, folks."

      New Madrid 4.0 today. hint hint High energy frequencies. Sonic waves I did not say. Cluster of reactors in TN + Oak Ridge atomic weapon lab. Quake up. Shake up. Look up. Look up at the deep space DARPA platform. Pin point accuracy. Off the radar but not off the scope. This is only a test. A huge "natural" disaster. Save the sheep in FEMA camps. Agenda 21 is a profitable plan. Less is more. easier to control.

  42. There is a new post at the runesoup site and I thought this was a really interestin excerpt from it:

    There is no way using the word ‘psychology’ makes magic any safer. Similarly, if you are worried that ‘messing about’ with the grimoires may unbalance you psychologically then you box yourself into the corollary suggestion: Okay then, put the grimoire down, go back to the couch and brain entrain yourself with Kardashians and mainstream news coverage. Aaahhh, much safer! I’ll take my chances with the legions of hell before I ever switch on CNN, thank you very much.

    Let me be clear: there is no ‘safe’ option to anything because you are in possession of the most dangerous, powerful and unreliable object mankind has ever encountered: human consciousness. It is a Japanese nuclear reactor after a tsunami: none of your options are what we would call safe, but you have to do something. It’s like your economic situation after the looming collapse in the bond market (around October this year)… you can’t sit it out. Not taking a position is taking a position.

    What are we to do, then? Re-examine the data and build new premises from which to operate.

    Let me tell you something about NDEs. The term itself was coined by Raymond Moody in his 1970s bestseller, Life After Life. It’s based on hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of accounts of near death experiences. Why so many in so short a time? Well, the leading cause of death in the western world is a heart attack and defibrillators were installed in ambulances in the 60s. Prior to this time, for all of human history, if you had a heart attack you died. Now we can bring people back with some reliability from the leading cause of death in the west. You find accounts of NDEs going back through history but they are scant because, if you died, you had a tendency to stay dead. Now we have thousands of cases of people coming back after describing other worlds. The sheer volume of accounts has increased by, what, ten thousand per cent? This is a new dataset… the Victorian magicians did not have it, the grimoirists before them did not have it, the Renaissance magicians did not have it, the priests of the Classical Age did not have it. We have it.

    And what have we done with it? Fuck all. Now I want you to picture all those dead wizards you idolise going back through history. I want you to see them sitting around a table pouring over Moody’s and Dr Lommel’s research and then looking up at you and saying are you fucking kidding me? At the end of the table sit the shamans of the neolithic and palaeolithic. They are the angriest. They had to poison themselves to death, vomiting and shitting in front of the entire tribe on a weekly basis until their inevitably early demise, just to bring back fragments of what we have access to on our cellphones.

    Link here:

    1. red fox -

      I've been joyfully fracking the spirit world for as long as I've could think and read, and play and dream. it just comes naturally. :) the spirit world, in turn, gets to joyfully frack me. they love it, too. we laugh and laugh.

  43. Good memory MO FLO: "there are plans kicking around for coordinating things like wide-scale, rapid emergency shutdowns." That's exactly what I posted about 5 times on NBL at start of this year. Congress had sessions on what happens to all the reactors after EMP, Methane, asteroids, unexpected large scale impact events. Actuarial tables of probability show that the global risk is much higher than they wanted to admit. Recognition of events unfolding in Europe prior to WW2 also took awhile to reach a critical mass of awareness before allied forces decided to take swift action. Today Multi-national corporations have the deepest pockets and can probably effect the most rapid changes if they desire. Although they are at odds on the surface China, Russia the EU & NATO countries are aligned for now in the global economy network. At this time on Earth the Multi-national CEO's and privately held Saudi Aramco have direct access, orders & authority to request all scientific teams to develop a safety solution. They are at the very top of having all the data feeds from, satellites, DARPA engineering, Bio-genetic labs & IMF.

    Everything I say is monitered by the NSA because he only thing the conglomerates seem to fear is civil unrest. Pharoes, Hapsburg's, Romonoffs & Sun Kings have lost empires when they lost control of the angry mobs. Humans & everything on earth are considered their resources. Shutting down, decommissioning, rapid depletion, deficit issues are their semi-blind spots. They know much more than I do but most of us can see that they always desire to buy time. buy solutions. buy any plan that keeps them safe & secure in profit extraction mode. Keep people shopping & working.

    NONE of the above is my concern. MO you know I'm an energy being who is temporarily almost EXACTLY like you. Most of my actual living experience & frame of mind includes many other realities. From the other side of our galaxy our solar system is undetectable. Most of me is connected in full living form to an alternate space that possibly only you Mo FLOW would understand. Every passing thing on this pale blue dot barely matters - except as a former tourist of this planet, my love for mother nature remains. So while I happen to have a tiny aspect of me here with a math brain, I'll calculate & formulate safe radioactive reductions. Those who are watching know this atom splitting thing has gone a bit too far. If any solution is channeled it will only be for future evolutionary reasons. "

    "Let me be clear: there is no ‘safe’ option to anything because you are in possession of the most dangerous, powerful and unreliable object mankind has ever encountered: human consciousness. It is a Japanese nuclear reactor after a tsunami: none of your options are what we would call safe, but you have to do something. At the end of the table sit the shamans of the neolithic and palaeolithic.

    When the polio vacccine was discovered Dr. Jonas Salk always credited a higher source. "All answers pre-exist. It is just a matter of un-covering them."

    RED FOX knows: "They are the angriest. They had to poison themselves to death, vomiting and shitting in front of the entire tribe on a weekly basis until their inevitably early demise." Luckily it is not quite so harsh for me. Tonight I fly south as usual. Although I could not talk as a child I have a mental form of communication with wild dolphins. The former rainforest ranger knows how to heal over weekends. On Mondays I return to bring back fragments.

    SATISH is my dolphin voice as I swim across the sky "if we imagined that our future generations were here, just not in physical form, like some indigenous cultures imagined, we'd do things a lot differently."

    1. I heard a wonderful dolphin story once, Mark. I worked with a doctor who was a traveler and filling in for a doc on vacation, and the guy was a total earth muffin. He said that he went on a boat tour near Bimini that was for swimming with wild dolphins.

      One of the tourists was a very largely pregnant woman. When she got into the water with the other people, the dolphins began to approach her, then very gently force her away from the other people. She was frightened and asked the tour guide what was going on, and the tour guide said he had never seen them do that before, but he felt very certain that she was safe. So, brave woman went with it and the dolphins surrounded her in the water a few yards away from the other people. Then, a female dolphin with a very, very new baby swam into the circle to meet the woman together while the other dolphins maintained the circle of protection around them.

    2. fantastic story! that is so wonderfully lovely. yep.

  44. Mark, Mark,

    For me this pale blue dot really, really matters! I cannot let it go even though personal death is meaningless to me. That's how it should be for a human of my age. The kind of fear and denial of death prevalent in our society is quite a new thing. Part of our culture wanting to control and fix everything.

    But to think that everything will have to go extinct before its time because of our species is unimaginably awful - even though I've been completely resigned to it for some time now.

    I love this blue planet of our more than you can imagine. That's part of the Earth-bound "curse" or "blessing". Could all this be because I'm a woman? We cannot escape our flesh so easily, at least most of us.

    I often think that "knowing" that you are more than body and spirit united,in the way that rad Fox described it, makes it easier to put this Earth aside, see it as the tiny speck it really is. I can manage all that intellectually, no problem, and I've thought about all the things you and mo talk about many times before. Also, reason and rationalising are no strangers to me but I have to put them aside sometimes because love for the Earth just overwhelms me. I cannot escape - and I don't want to.
    Still, I'm glad for you and mo that you found each other on this level of energy beings. It looks as if that level will be inaccessible to me.

    1. Sabine,
      Yes, to me , the awesome blue being is the most important manifestation of Life. I have no desire to explore outside of the Earth realms as everything is here. The other realms that are important for Earth's creatures including us are within the Earth. It is where I come from, where I am and where I shall go.

      I read this earlier today:

      "Whilst the state of ecstasy is usually describes as "transcending the flesh" it is important to note that the witches' ecstativ vision GROWS OUT OF THE FLESH AS A PLANT DOES FROM SOIL"-Lee Morgan, "A Deed Without a Name".

      "Rad Fox" is an interesting slip...:0)

  45. Sorry, it should be "Red Fox" and "planet of ours". My brain is getting a bit like porridge.

    I have a relative coming from Germany tomorrow, for a whole week. She's a very urban creature, and I have to take her shopping to London! She's not one for gardening and long walks in the countryside. She's like most people: a human-oriented human, the rest is scenery, the stage set where she acts her life . Nearly everybody I know is like that, so no blame.
    And I love her, so I'll adapt for a week.

    There'll be lots to catch up on, when I have time again to come here.

    So all of you, have a lovely Easter!

  46. Dear Sabine, I was just specifically thinking of you while printing calculations to fix the saltwater acid problems at Turkey Point plant in Miami.

    Everything in chemistry today came from your ancient garden knowledge. Roots under the full moon. Mixing the right herbs. Organic & natural with bees doing the cross pollination not labs. Once you posted a prayer "Just one more year" and that is deeply registed inside my human soul. God knows the mystery of your healing ferns spring in the shadows or why your specific line that was not even written to me...but it was read...and felt...and silently repeated as I mix up a sorceress sample platter of microbes that digest radiation. Nature already gave us these microbes clinging to thermal vents at the bottom of the sea. Some are extremely hardy thermophiles & Mephistopheles that survive out in radioactive space. They live on meteors & space dust. The answers are raining down from space and living deep in the seas. YOUR request is a powerful reason for me to do what I do with a modern form of brew.

    In 2009 I worked for a few weeks at CERN. Very intense energy in that powerful machine. I still have a lost driving story to share with ARTLEADS that happened right there in Geneva France. I ended up following a zen motorcycle to Provance. At dawn I was in front of Nostradamas house. I sat in his eternal herb garden. Protected & preserved thru centuries of time. The alchemy. the chemistry. the energy in the flowers & lady bugs. Time truly has many dimensions. For those who need specific proof in multi-layers of the Universe, from Cern their answer will come. But SABINE I think you already know there are many unseen reasons & seasons growing in your garden. A little invisibe spirit is there in a drop of dew. It contains a universe in every atom. You breath them. You touch them...they flow into scientific superstrings & magic things. Pixies & pixels. You bet this guard dog loves, earth you & your home. Now I know it sounds far out but you are never really alone. Of course I never can promise a rose garden. Even the unseen is filled with thorny problems. But a curse can become a cure. Antibodies are extracted from Ebola. The undetectable matters as much as any giant shining sun. Earth has been wonderful to me. Sometimes I get blasted with a hurricane of anger from humans. Blame, shame & expectations to deliver results faster. Serve it with a smiley App on a cell ph while they are on the run. But their will be wide eyed kids when get to the Coconut Grove swimming pool. Wanting to play morph frog. Fractals of each unique spirit needing this planet to return to. Ages of soul evolutions unfold here. Under a sea of stars. Keeping things healthy only seems like a minor task, when I don't let the voices of distraction & destruction become too vast.

  47. Mark, I just saw your 3/31 post on NBL about the conversation here. Very nice post. I really enjoyed it.

    Sabine, I so understand. Have a really nice holiday, and I will think of you in your garden. It has turned cool here again, but it is time for me to start working in my yard and getting my garden going for the year. In the past we could not count on a frost-free night until late May, and I rarely began spring chores outside before the end of April, but that has changed in recent years by quite a bit. I am doing things on the property at least three weeks earlier than I did when I first arrived in Alaska 25 years ago. I am roaming the woods looking for chaga, which is all the rage here these days. Have you heard of it?

    mo, Nos. 1 through 5 are still alive! I have an inquiry out to see if a couple my age who LOVE their son's mastiff and pine for it when it isn't in their care, would be interested in Puppyman. They are really, really good dog people who have 40 acres and they are outside all the time working their property.

    Regarding these folks and swapping consciousness: the man of the couple once had a brief consciousness exchange with a grizzly he encountered by surprise at quite close range. He was walking in the woods, and he came to within a dozen feet of it and it was just sitting on the ground waiting for him. For a brief moment he was the grizzly, and the grizzly was him completely. What was it like? He said he had no idea how bad human beings smell. His own odor, from the grizzly's perspective was the most notable aspect of the experience. And, of course, grizzlies have a sense of smell that is about 10,000 times our own. When they went back into their own consciousness, they just turned away from each other and went their separate ways. The bear was very smart, he said.

    1. yes, Sabine, enjoy your Easter with your relative! and London!

      great to hear 1-5 are still alive. is 5 catching up in size at all? just a bit bigger, and total world domination is at hand...! or foot... chicken wing? or something...

      also really interesting about Puppyman and 40 acres with good dog people. that could be so ideal.

      totally cool consciousness swapping story. one of those "instant high shock, high stress" situations which has the potential to do all kinds of wild things. it can snap the veil aside just briefly enough and bam-oh, you're a grizzly and a grizzly is you.

      poor bear. not only was he smelling stinky human from the outside, but from the inside, too! that must have been truly horrible.

      I am pretty sure many beings out there have shared my consciousness. there is frequently much going on, especially at night, that I am unaware of. I wake up sometimes and just have this feeling on me, and sometimes a fading "smell of experience" where I know "I" have been out and about, but no memory of details.

      this happens during the day as well. I had one experience with a dear friend who encountered my doppelgänger in broad daylight. I had no awareness of this until she confronted me with the whole experience later the same day. very high strangeness. she realized it was a doppelgänger after I didn't acknowledge her. fortunately she was familiar enough with "high strangeness" not to freak out, at all.

      so much fun stuff in this wonderful, multi-dimensional, beautiful, marvelous Universe.

    2. oh, and for considering possible alternative explanations for the doppelgänger experience. no, I have never had multiple personality disorder. :) and no, it wasn't me in some kind of spaced out mode where I wasn't aware of what I was doing. I was quite simply bilocated. my friend, who was my best friend at the time, was not only somebody who I could NOT have not acknowledged, under any circumstances, but she was also someone I was always *very* delighted to see. :)

      she saw, and attempted to interact with, some kind of bilocated, utterly real looking projection of my being into the physical world. "my" reaction to her, she related, was as if "I" wasn't seeing her at all. she caught on really quickly that something weird was up. we both were in some real awe of the experience, when we tried to figure it out, but we hardly ever talked about it later.

    3. "a sense of smell that is about 10,000 times our own"

      I considered mentioning some of this, but this is a huge part of what I left out because I feel like it would be too perverse, ultimately, to try and relate to in any human way. there are levels of such mind-blowing eroticism in animal smell-sensing - and also levels of certain kinds of relishing things that any sane human would consider beyond disgusting but are in fact... well, no words.

      for whatever reason, I favor predators in my merger experiences - whether mammals or birds. in any human context, this tends to get really gross really quickly. talking about how much I actually enjoy (again, no words to describe what it really is) all of this (heh) does not exactly sound sane.

    4. I think of the predator essence that I've recently become familiar with in a conscious way. I wonder if earlier crass behavior was the not being able to recognize/accept those essences or to relegate them to where they belong. So, yes, the predator is there somewhere (if it is indeed a predator rather than a so-called lizard brain), but it seems to have little control over my behavior. Or no control over my behavior that I don't want it to have. I haven't "researched" the subject and am no doubt missing something. I'm just grateful to have some peace of mind.