Saturday, March 7, 2015

Civilization Removal


  1. OMG - I can't stop laughing...!

  2. You could add this at the bottom: "Any person wishing to appeal this action must file an appeal (Fee: Polluted air & unhealthy food) with the Biosphere Preservation Office, Planet Earth, as outlined by the laws of nature."

  3. For further information regarding this Civilization Removal Notice, contact the Galactic Federation, Milky Way Division Office, at (YOU) RSC-REWD

  4. In other words, Oh, Honey, you are so out of here.

  5. = new site with short article that sounds like it was written by Satish. 3 paragraph insight was recommended by climate org.

  6. I'm bringing the conversation to this thread:

    I want to tell you all something that I think you will really appreciate. I spent a long time this afternoon catching up with one of my very closest friends of my entire life. We have known each other for at least 20 years, maybe more. I was her friend for years before she told me of her background.

    My friend D's father was an American. But her mother was Lady Somebody or another. They met during WWII in England. Mother Lady's parents were a British born Lady who married a French Count. My friend D's great-grandparents were an English Earl and Countess, and a French Count and Countess, from (clears her throat) noble families going back to the 14th century.

    She grew up in Europe, speaks about four languages, enjoyed summers at Grandmere's chateaux, and was sent to British boarding schools with the wealthiest otherwise titled families in Europe. She has PTSD from all of that, being told she was "too fat," her feet were "too big," and she needed to stand this way, walk that way, dress one way, hold her mouth specifically, ad infinitum.

    She also spent fifteen years in Bethel, Alaska, the largest Native village in the state, and she has very strong ties to the Native community, the mushing and mountain climbing community, and Arctic expeditions for various reasons.

    She totally gets it. She knows how very screwed up her culture is. It still traumatizes her all the time.
    She is Sabine's age. I have never had to explain one thing to her, she is so amazing. This woman and I are like sisters. She just isn't a narcissist or a sociopath, so she gets it. Also, she isn't a wannabe. She knows European aristocracy better than I know Native American culture. She isn't nearly as impressed with that whole schtick as some of our friends at NBL.

    We both know that good people look alike everywhere. Isn't that a trip? Sometimes I just love my life!

    1. Yes OGF, good people look alike everywhere. Yes!

      Thanks for sharing that story. I know what you mean when you say: "She isn't a wannabe". Those words say it all!
      Wannabes and people who use their position, education, "superior" birth etc to elevate themselves, do this as a shield or a weapon, depending on circumstances. It's a trait that used to be called bad character, a word gone out of fashion.
      I can smell people like that a mile off but unlike you and Red Fox, have never come across "real" people from that sort of background. You two are lucky.

    2. Love it. How about the Countess in a tippy canoe ****

  7. One really interesting thing that has happened in my life because of this friendship is the amphora. D has a 3,000 year old Greek amphora. One year she was moving and I was helping her, and she asked me to take care of the amphora for her for a few weeks until she could settle in. Of course I agreed to have this antiquity in my home, I was thrilled. So I got to live with her amphora for about three weeks once.

    Sometimes I really love my life.

  8. I certainly agree with the fact that despite so called up bringing and the culture we're brought into (or brought ourselves into?) that "real" people are to be found, sometimes when you least expect it.
    I have a very good friend of nearly 30 years now who is the private school type, grand father was the chairman of what is now HSBC (In Britain, it was Midland Bank then). In spite of all that he is very down to earth and a good friend and is rubbish with money and has never been bailed out by family. He's quite eccentric and doesnt really "fit" into this world which in my book is a big plus!

  9. Hi, you, and everyone else!

    My goodness, what a stark difference between here and NBL. It is -10F here today, and snowing, something I cannot recall seeing before, but I'm sure it's happened. Normally, when it is that cold we don't have snow. I have rarely seen snow below 5F. Obviously, cold temperatures hold less moisture. It has been cold like this for over a week. The weather prognosticators have been predicting warmer weather more like March usually is, but it never gets here.

    mo flow and shep are the only ones who know that I have a new baby! Soon after I lost my wolf a young husky-bulldog mix started coming around everyday. I have taken him in and I wish I could show you the cute photos I took last evening and sent to mo. I did not want a dog yet, and I think the only breed I wanted less than a "pitsky" would be a Chinese Crested. I wanted a female, not a male. I wanted something with low-to-no prey drive. This dog has succeeded in keeping himself alive for weeks by begging, raiding trash, and hunting.

    I wanted a low energy dog, like a Great Pyrenees, a dog that shares my love of naps and my allergic reaction to regular exercise. I have a dog that runs in circles faster than my poodle can, but that's only because she's a senior citizen like me. In her younger days she could have given him a real "run" for his kibbles.

    I cannot afford this one now, and two angels of mercy paid for him to receive an exam, an x-ray, all his vaccinations and for him to be neutered. And someone, who doesn't want to be mentioned, helped me. Another angel of mercy who knows I am in a very, very, ummmmm, crushing spot until June, has saved my vegetarian bacon. I am so grateful to that dear and decent person. God bless you, person.

    1. My brother has a Great Pyrenees. A low-energy dog indeed. I'v had the opportunity to dog-sit him for a week recently. Sweet being!

  10. When spirit does not exist, this is reasonable behavior.

    1. The machine that clutches a tree at its base as if to hug it but then proceeds to slice it off clean at the point where the tree merges with the Earth and cut it up into logs: very haunting.

      Chalk it up to the "genius" of mechanical engineers and other engineers who build these monstrous machines. What a story young people get sucked into.

    2. Now even tree hugging is a horror. Almost as sad as watching "Earthlings" animal slaughter.

  11. Yup. That's Mordor, leaving a trail of desolation and despair. The Orcs have overrun the walls.

  12. Satish,

    Just in case you are familiar with any of these groups:

    "Silicon Valley Leads the Way in Creative Responses to the Drought

    Now in its fourth year, with no end in sight, California’s extreme drought requires every community to do its part to conserve water. Silicon Valley has stepped up in a big way with creative and technological approaches to conserving water. The results of these efforts are clear, nearly 15 billion gallons of water were saved last year, and 11 of the 14 Bay Area communities with the lowest per capita water use are located in Silicon Valley (defined as San Mateo County, Santa Clara County, and Alameda County from Hayward south).

    The Silicon Valley Water Conservation Awards Coalition is pleased to announce its 2015 winners, including a government agency that provides free water conservation devices and installation to low-income customers, a football stadium that uses recycled water for almost all non-potable uses, a college that is harvesting cooling tower water and rainwater, a county that trains inmates in water conservation job skills, a nonprofit that educates people about drought-tolerant landscaping, a business that provides home water reports, a 17 year-old who converted parkland turf to native trees, and a professional who helped her employer reduce water use by 600,000 gallons per day.

    And the winners are:

    Water Utility: Alameda County Water District
    Business: Forty Niners Stadium Management Co. - Levi’s Stadium
    Organization: Foothill College Environmental Horticulture Program
    Greenscape Management: County of Santa Clara
    Education: Acterra
    Innovation: WaterSmart Software
    Water Champion: Akhil Dua
    Lifetime Achievement: Marty Laporte

    The Awards will be presented at a special ceremony on Monday, March 23 from noon-1pm at the new LEED platinum Mitchell Park Community Center, 3700 Middlefield Rd. in Palo Alto. UC Berkeley professor and author of Water 4.0, David Sedlak, will give the keynote address. The Awards Ceremony will be preceded by a Water Conservation Expo from 11am-noon. Details can be found at "

    1. Thanks for sending, Artleads. Wonder why the government is providing water conservation devices and installation to low-income customers and not others. As if the low-income customers use more water or are too stupid to understand conservation. Much more water is used in the wealthy enclaves of Atherton and Woodside, home to the monstrous estates of the valley's elites.

      What's funny is they talk about water conservation tips and they have to include "restaurants will not offer water to customers unless they ask for it". Really, that's what it has come down to? While millions of gallons of water are wasted in keeping the lawns green on corporate campuses? Psychological tricks!

      I'm still processing this - (things are not looking good)

    2. Indeed. I was told by a major water activist there (who sent me the above) that East Palo Alto uses much less water than the regional average. Your comment helps me not to avoid looking at the matter squarely. Thanks. We could use this kind of awareness in Santa Fe county!

  13. I met Guy last weekend in Chico, CA. He said, "I know you!" Quite a big turnout for his talk and workshop.

    1. I'm meeting Guy on April 25th in London.
      Red Fox says he's coming too. So I will meet both of them!

      It's a shame I can't meet you all.

  14. "knock knock"
    "who's there?"
    "new thread"
    "new thread who?"
    "new thread for needles sharp and pointed,
    like bouncy hedgehogs,
    you know...
    me and you."

  15. John Stevens - All Of Me

  16. happy first day of spring!

    1. Happy first day of spring to you too, and to all of you.

      Here, we had a beautiful sunny day but it's now a quarter to six in the evening.
      When I was young, the spring equinox was on the 21st of March. I can't remember when it changed. No matter, before there were clocks and modern calendars, when this time of the year was really important to our ancestors, it probably didn't matter anyway

  17. Sabine - yes spring moves, doesn't it?

    what a lovely way to burn. Elvis knew a bit too much about spring fever.

    I LOVED your latest input to the Botster 9000. oh dear, I'm afraid Bot may be singing Daisy soon, if he doesn't get major upgrade. '-)

  18. uh oh, looks like we might have to go in through the airlock.

    without our space helmets...

  19. Mo Flow - just wrote about your theater full of actors on NBL. How about a reality directing job?? Want to go for a SUSPENSEFUL ride??? Came here for the grand unwinding...oh but what if there was a real showstopper...change the reels...something so very queer even you did not detect it was already here - flickering inside YOUR mind () () ()

    ARTLEADS - Of course our STORIES are mixed with the laws of physics.
    Maybe us old spirits can't see a way to get through this impasse...sure adds to the drama. Most of our species is at a childish stage of evolution.

    May the ASCENT OF HUMANITY have an Arab spring. An Eclipse of old school competition. I'm flying south in an hour to sail & swim with the dolphins. Squeeky underwater language of love "thanks for all the fish"

    SABINE - I made a direct offer to Bud Nye a minute ago on NBL. Gotta put his mental energy toward a more intelligent design. Ultra Voliet spring flowers & light rays to you. Celtic stone Circles...hula hoops..Alaska bear hugs to all as we go round the sun again.

    Apps for the STORY of Satish...I'm adjusting my drop down menu from 5 shades of red to pure blue. lot's of ocean & sky for U.

    1. Mark,

      I just read Lidia's replies to your comment over on NBL.
      Dear me, she IS angry. She's another one who can't read between the lines, who can only use "reason". How boring these people are, what a boring life dominated by anxiety, like so many people now. I should have compassion for them, but sometimes I find that quality severely stretched in me.

      There's so little time left, so why bother with people like that. I know she thinks of me as super shallow. It's impossible to ignore that we are all attracted to people on a similar "heart/brain level" to us. No matter what language we use, we can never penetrate the sculls of people who can only use their "heads". But we here have the advantage of knowing WHEN to use our heads. Therefore, we're able to use reason more effectively. I know that you all know exactly what I mean.
      See, you belong here. Here we can spark off each other. Because sparking off each other is the ultimate high, healthy in every way! This is how I imagine ancient hunter/gatherers relating to each other. It's really a kind of intimacy (if you all don't mind me using this word) that you can't share with everybody anymore. There are too many of us now.

      You often write like an ancient story teller (or so I imagine) with metaphors and phrases which seem to come so naturally to you but demand a certain engagement from the listener/reader which is alien to them. It confronts and instantly repels them. They are unable to let the words penetrate so that they can reflect, work on them. I reminds me of the Greek oracle which people consulted and often didn't "get" because they were "intelligible".
      Maybe those myths refer to a time when our species started to change, made a transition which seems to be coming to its pinnacle now.
      Just musing....
      You're very lucky to be able to do that and be a "scientific" man too - like Satish. There are very few of you. That makes you special.

      Lidia is also on the autistic spectrum. Some time ago, she said so herself in a reply to something ulvfugl had written. ulvfugl doesn't comment on NBL anymore. He really got pissed off with the likes of Bud and Gail and "lost his will to live".
      To deal with people like that, you really do need a sense of humour, and ulvfugl, a wise and extremely knowledgeable man in almost every way (but also very abusive), lacked the humour to play and not takes things too seriously. Quite the opposite to mo, who flows - like you.

      Keep on flowing....but always find your way back here.

    2. It's impossible to ignore that we are all attracted to people on a similar "heart/brain level" to us. No matter what language we use, we can never penetrate the sculls of people who can only use their "heads". But we here have the advantage of knowing WHEN to use our heads. Therefore, we're able to use reason more effectively. I know that you all know exactly what I mean.

      I'm a bit of Forest Gump so it's taken me till 52 to attempt blogs & social media stuff. I was warned about all the misreading of my words. Projections onto images filtered thru distorted disinformation. Mass marketed minds. Lions & typers & bull market bears...oh my...but I'm sorta clinging to you for hope and guidance as I venture into this fun house. SABINE you do the most amazing "care" with Bud & others. I read it all speachless. Couldn't even finish a pretty good Antropocence novel because I wanted to read more here.

      sparking off each other is the ultimate high, healthy in every way! This is how I imagine ancient hunter/gatherers relating to each other. It's really a kind of intimacy (if you all don't mind me using this word) that you can't share with everybody anymore. ---- I don't mind much of anything --- possibly my problem. I've made a sea of yummy lemonade out of being shipwrecked on the citrus shores of Costa Rica. Managed to turn a curse into a cure. Might even get a few people helping reduce the radioactive Godzilla...or not. Probably sink forgetting to raise the white flag - but who knows what's to come? My mutual concern with a President sort of directed me here. "Gotta get active with the public." but I'm learning so much more. With any success I'll be sending you forget me nots. Heck, I'll promise you a White House rose garden. Party party if I can tame one more big one radiating into eternity. Got the cure for Hep C. bye bye AIDS by next year. I do believe in miracles if you put your mind to it. Hugs to the spirit of Rosa Parks on the Selma bus...history is full of tiny little people who eventually connect the right dots.

      "Where is my Tribe?"...."Where am I going?" "What is the root to all this?" EMPATHY with everything. Even the deck of my weekend boat has it's own type of feeling experiencing an atomic level entropy. Sun. Salt. This moonless damp night in Miami.

      SABINE your next line is so nice it made me cry. Shit I'm crying again: "You often write like an ancient story teller (or so I imagine) with metaphors and phrases which seem to come so naturally to you but demand a certain engagement from the listener/reader which is alien to them. It confronts and instantly repels them. They are unable to let the words penetrate so that they can reflect, work on them. I reminds me of the Greek oracle which people consulted and often didn't "get" because they were "intelligible".
      Maybe those myths refer to a time when our species started to change, made a transition which seems to be coming to its pinnacle now.

      Now I'm speechless. still crying. This is beyond tying up on deck...I'd better go below.

  20. "I-origins" is an exceptionally smart new movie involving reincarnation. See the film short preview on You Tube.

    gotta watch the new HBO "Vice" episode about rising seas & China: "Under the Dome" air pollution as this jet makes a contrail.

  21. Mark -

    I keep trying to fire myself, and then I keep rehiring myself. I always find out there really is no one else out there who can do a better job! :)

    funny thing, though, every time I rehire myself, I'm thinking someone replaced me with a clone, and the one I am hiring now, isn't really the same one as the one in fired earlier. it's unnerving and very strange! the suspense is killing me...

    (I'm just hoping there isn't an evil twin lurking out there somewhere, otherwise I'm going to have to fire myself for real...)

    have a great swim with the dolphins, Mark!

  22. that is one heck of a juicy seed. nice planting and joyful watering, Satish.

    we are here!

    (and here)

    and I think I see one over there... hey!

    1. Thanks, mo flow. That turned out to be a rather long post. And I'm not even competing with Bud!

  23. Mark,
    I commented on NBL regarding your post to Lidia concerning contacting "our leaders". I was very surprised tbh hence my response. To be honest, unlike Sabine, I cant tell if you were posting tongue in cheek or not-my failing I know! I just cant believe that you were serious?
    My pathway into the NTHE hypothesis (and i'll be upfront and admit I dont, as yet, buy into it 100%) is via about 20 years enagaged with Green Anarchism so I obviously do not consider such tactics to be worthwhile at all. I have no leaders! ;0)

    Ive not posted much recently as have been a bit "under the weather" and also Ulvfugl has been posting a lot of good stuff on his blog recently.

    1. red fox -

      very recent history of the net neutrality battle in the USA, and which side actually won.

      how did this happen? with exactly the process Mark is talking about, just on a much larger scale. but you gotta start somewhere, and when this gets rolling, we may actually be able to prevent large scale disaster for whatever follows us, as Mark talks about - for the life force, for whatever nature still exists, that follows IC collapse.

      many things are possible. it is unknown what will happen, in many ways. what is a known: the net neutrality battle would have been lost, by the people of the USA, in the worst way, if no one (no real people!) had acted. this one thing could be critical down the road with other things. the links the chain go in all kinds of directions... more like a web, or a net. :)

    2. mo flow, I have doubts about recent Net Neutrality developments. As with many other "causes", there is the money and weight of big business behind it. While it sounds like the right thing to do, just like putting solar panels on the roof sounds like the right thing to do, it favors one group of oligarchs over another.

      This from -

      "The short answer is that Google grew up. Its transformation into a corporate colossus reordered its Washington agenda as it rapidly assembled a lobbying apparatus to promote it. For one, new partnerships with other companies complicated its once near-ideological commitment to the open Internet. Back in 2010, the company angered consumer advocates by negotiating with Verizon — a net neutrality boogeyman — on a framework that would allow Internet service providers to charge content creators for zippier delivery. The plan never materialized but it clearly signaled the company’s evolution. And as Google solidified its dominance, its need to enshrine the most aggressive form of a regulatory regime diminished."

      "“The logic of networks suggests that the bigger Google gets, the less it has to gain from net neutrality,” says Columbia Law School professor Tim Wu, who first coined the term in 2003. “Now, half the examples out there are like, ‘The good thing about net neutrality is that some guy in his garage can challenge Google.’”"

      I just think we're at a stage in the centralization process that most everything of significance that happens eventually gets to the point of being rendered insignificant due to changes in technology or financial landscape. Maybe I am jaded?

      But still, I welcome this development if it's going to keep small blogs around :)

    3. Midnight Coconut grove: My best friend is down in the boat cabin snoring so I just came up on deck with my laptop. Stars, breeze & some jazzy music floating across the Marina. Sailing off at dawn to snorkel all day...never know which one will be our last but like Red Fox I'll go with the overall flow of data indicating Guy's timeline. Hey, I'm still his UofA student at heart. Many thanks to each of you for helping me adjust my compass. I'm just a 52 year old former park ranger trying to focus on one big clean up while I have access.

      Special brief comment replies to each of you above. SABINE thank you so dearly for understanding me. I'm actually crying. I'm probably but as stupid as happy Forest Gump but I've been so close to death that I have no fear of sharing really personal feelings. No fear of Love. Not enough worry about being hated, hopeless, attempting the impossible yet again. All the stars are twinkling on this clear night....and some how I still believe some greater common sense about reducing nukes will prevail...even if all the rest does fail. Sabine you read me so well. Thru each of you I'm learning how to blog. So glad we made "Contact"

    4. Satish says:

      ""The short answer is that Google grew up. Its transformation into a corporate colossus reordered its Washington agenda as it rapidly assembled a lobbying apparatus to promote it. For one, new partnerships with other companies complicated its once near-ideological commitment to the open Internet. Back in 2010, the company angered consumer advocates by negotiating with Verizon — a net neutrality boogeyman — on a framework that would allow Internet service providers to charge content creators for zippier delivery. The plan never materialized but it clearly signaled the company’s evolution. And as Google solidified its dominance, its need to enshrine the most aggressive form of a regulatory regime diminished."

      Thanks for your perspective, in which I have supreme confidence (despite not quite getting my mind around some of the words--it happens).

      So I take short cuts. I often say that I operate like an animal. I might not understand the words humans use, but I get the "body language."

      So here we go again. I had just suggested to someone over on blog that maybe Google Earth could be used on a macro scale to map urban space where food can grow. Backyards, etc. They've mapped pretty much everything already anyhow. (I was shocked when the roof solar people dug up several areal views of my house.) Maybe all this obscene prying can be used to help us grow food when oil for big ag runs dry (as the Gail Tverberg people predict as imminent). I sort of doubt that any centralized "remedies" can work, and the horror of the Google "matrix" haunts me intuitively, even when I don't get the actual nuts and bolts of it. But then I can't quite picture not adapting BAU to the survival needs of the system either. Still, Google in any form and for any use seems terrifying...

      The baseball great Satchel Paige would say, "Don't look back. For something might be gaining on you." I feel like that. Don't look at things too clearly. Plunge ahead wherever you can. Expect nothing, but never lose faith.

      Best to you and to all.

    5. Hi Artleads, although Technology like Google Earth could be put to good use (like finding spaces for urban permaculture), I am skeptical it will be. Because it's politics and money that decides where Technology will be put to use. I had debates with folks at Google who think Tech is like a double-edged knife and can be put to good or harmful uses. Even if certain uses of Technology look benign or even life-saving, the long trend is unmistakably one that serves capital and hence is anti-life in essence.

      Another way I think about it is the kind of business environment that makes a company like Google possible (with its vast resources and data) is the same kind that establishes control over more and more domains of human life. The people who invest in Google are similar to those who invest in Monsanto and other companies that seek total control over the food chain.

  24. I must admit to be pretty riled up by that shitty essay on NBL by Clive Elwell. Some of the biggest load of bollocks i've read on there. So, to that degree I can actually sympathise a bit with Lidia's outburst which appears to be as a result of frustration. I intensely dislike her world view but share her "political frustration". To that end I would like to try a short crossover between that and an animistic view. I've been up since 2 am so what follows may be a bit disjointed (its now 1500 here).
    It's like this, there seems to be very little talk of other beings on NBL, it is mostly self absorbed, dare I say it, newage bullshit-the Carolyn Baker effect that I find nauseating. There is passing mention of all the glorious things going extinct but then it reverts to the human centric view of how "to comes to terms with it all" and that revolting use of the term hospice. As if animals cornered would roll over and die accepting their fate.

    I have to ask this; have any of us actually asked any other non human living spirit what it wants and what it thinks of our own behaviour; what we can do to help that spirit? I have asked but have never got a response that I could understand or "hear". In witchcraft one should not divulge the name and nature of ones contacts or guardians but i'm talking about embodied spirits like you and me. What does the stream that is being choked with nitrogen field run off have to say? The trees earmarked for killing as a new road is laid? What about the "weed" that is pulled from a garden or the road killed badger?
    I'm riled today I admit. I cant hear them, I can only see them...

    An acquaintance of mine is a publisher of real occult literature. I have asked about his contacts, which I should not really have done but he graced me a with a reply. I know he works with the "red" current of the spirit (Goddess if you will) of love,lust and war known now as Babalon. John Dee during the reign of Elizabeth 1st was in touch with this spirits "daughter" Madimi via Edward Kelley his seer.
    Madimi has, it appears, if you believe such things, appeared again. This time she has spoken no words (none that I have been told about anyway). This time she appeared and just wept...

    1. Red Fox,

      I agree with you about the navel gazing, the almost exclusive obsession with the anthropocentric point of view over on NBL. But most modern people can only see people, the rest is pure scenery, a backdrop. It frustrates me and sometimes makes me want to scream.

      I don't think I've ever done that to that extent because I feel that I never lost the connectedness I felt as a small child. But that connectedness includes humans, how could it not?
      My personal non-human contact, the one that I'm convinced I genuinely experience, is mainly with plants. Animals too, but they are mostly mediators between me plants and other Others. Not always though.
      Does that sound weird?
      These things are so difficult to express. I can't say for sure that I work with them in the way that your acquaintance, the publisher of occult literature works with the "red current" of the spirit of love, lust and war.
      See, to me that would take you right back to a human-centred vision, lust and war being exclusively human.
      I always shy away from naming. I my experience you lose the thread if you do. How to explain? How to visualize being another life form? I don't think the occult, as I understand it, could help me there. Nor modern witchcraft/wicca. But maybe it's different for different people, far too individual. But in order to connect with other humans to share information of this kind, we have to find a common denominator. The occult is one....but it leaves me out precisely because it prescribes rituals and names, names which can never be the "original" ones because they are different in different languages, pronounced differently etc.
      If sound is important (I think it is) what do Babalon or Madimi mean? I'm babbling, I know. But do you see what I mean?

      For me, communication with other life forms is very direct, and I'm sure that I'm connecting with their spirit (ulvfugl's newest essay on that has quite a bit to say on this). However, this communication is one to one for me. Evidently I'm not adept enough to communicate my visions any further.

      From other life, I feel pain being transmitted, weeping, yes, and I've had experiences like that for many years now. Sometimes it's so bad, I cannot bear it, I cannot walk among my loved ones. But I do because they need to communicate. So do I.
      Some people are too cowardly to face pain and dying with their loved ones, for instance their animal companions, when they have to take them to the vet to be euthanized. But this is when companionship is needed. I feel that the landscape around me with all the beings in it needs me to do what I can, while I can. And for that I must communicate, stay in touch, always. Your connecting to the land base, artleads' land art are all part of that.

      When a connection like this happens (not only with life forms but also other Others, land base) I enter a different level, I'm bursting with energy, a waking dream state but full of awareness, warmth (current?), and I feel very alert. None of this really describes this state adequately. Words are totally inadequate. In a way, you need to let yourself fall in order to soar.
      But I'm certain, because it happens to me, and it's happened to me for a long time. You kill it by forcing it and analysis... and very often by naming.

      Maybe this is were the magic (secret) names and traditions of not naming God/deity/the sacred come from. I think that when you experience connection like that you "know" it's just for you.

      Maybe only shamans/witches can transmit such visions to others, it seems that way to me. Maybe our hunter/gatherer ancestors could "spark" these spirits among them naturally. That also seems likely to me. But you can get there yourself, at least part of the way, that's my experience.
      I think modern (resurrected) ways of making spirit "visible" are by their very nature pale imitations. So I'm always a bit sceptical.

    2. Thank you Sabine for the always well considered reply. All of which you say resonates with me with regard to connections with our other relatives. what I was attempting to get at, rather poorly, was whether anyone had had "contact" with a discreet abused/dying person of the natural world-hence the polluted stream and roadkill and so on. Although I have made what I believe to be connections of various kinds i have never deliberately sought out the injured part of the Land for contact. I dont know of anybody who has who is able to divulge it. I think that is why the "fire and ice" book is so poignant because it is alive with other beings, some of whom are dying. I wonder what the spirit of the badger would say to me just after it had been run down. Wonder is not the right word; perhaps dread is more appropriate. I'm sure if living beings used for food are propitiated, as the old hunters did with respect then all would be as it should be. But squashed on a road or your water poisoned without a thought? As they said in the book, "just fuckin' bugs on the windshield".

      Personally I dont believe that the shamans and witches had any special powers of contact than everybody has, but the culture they found themselves in was already separating itself away from the Whole so likewise with the shamans and later the witches. I have a rather incoherent "beef" with shamanism as a specialisation as I feel it was the beginnings of a usurption of power away from the group to an individual claiming she/he knew what the spirits said and it was all downhill from there when a veil began to be drawn across the worlds, gradually separating them so that we are where we are today in this culture with only a few individuals who cultivate the ability to rend the veil.
      Occultism as a practice is typical of western formalisation. Strip it all away and of course we're back at animism as a way of life rather than a specific discreet practice.

      I read a book many years ago called "The Gaia Dialogues" by a much maligned lady called Murry Hope. She claimed to have communicated with the Earth's spirit (Danuih being the preferred name apparently). I may get it again as I seem to remember it foreshadowed much of which is going down. She was neither newage nor really an occultist; a bit of an enigma, calling herself a pan-animist.
      Anyway, enough for now :)

    3. Sorry, I realise you said about your own communication with the other beings communicating pain. I've been up too long today!

    4. RED FOX - You first question about this above was most touching. However I'm coping from you progress on this heart rending issue:

      "what I was attempting to get at, rather poorly, was whether anyone had had "contact" with a discreet abused/dying person of the natural world-hence the polluted stream and roadkill and so on. Although I have made what I believe to be connections of various kinds i have never deliberately sought out the injured part of the Land for contact. I don't know of anybody who has who is able to divulge it."

      I too have lost the "nature" language to divulge, but during my longest times at sea or near the end of ranger experience I melded enough with non-human experience that you could see and hear the breath of life energy in transition. can't describe it in english, science or math. More of a unified field that was flowing from one place to another. And I'm sorry to say that there was a form of pain & release after fire. Or when an old tree sloth died of natural cause. There was a vibration in that passing. Also the morning of 911...I described that in detail earlier. Literally a disturbance in the morphic field. Only human me was the most out of touch...2 days later I walked to the nearest village to find out it wasn't a reverberation from a distant volcano. It sort of speaks in waves. IMO there is such a thing as jungle telegraph. Birds in flight patterns. fish is schools. Just like when you are calm and encounter the deer. Lot's of natural sense all around. The deer have curiosity, common sense as well as mis-reading & making mistakes. See that bird on TV the other day that flies in a house to snuggle with a kid?

  25. Hi Red Fox,

    I'm not much good with the anger-sphere. People miss connections and then jump to conclusions and then GO OFF. I love Ulvfugl, but if I would take to heart everything he says, I'd kill myself. I'd rather not do that. It's pretty effing amazing to be alive on this earth, and I mostly try to appreciate that.

    I have greatly appreciated the spirits on this blog. It sounds like bullshit, I know. Whatever. But I appreciate it when mo flow declares that nothing is real. Nothing to get effing upset about. We do the best we can with the information we have.

    1. Nice one Artleads; I honestly do envy your equanimity. I wouldnt consider myself an angry person as such but I do get flashes especially when to my eyes, stupidity reigns. I greatly respect Ulvfugl; i'm not well versed in zen but I believe his verbal tactics are akin to those of the mythical zen teacher who walks up to a student and cracks them over the head with his staff. U's was a metaphorical verbal staff imo.
      You are right, this place is a sanctuary of sorts and doesnt give me the "vapours" like the NBL blog does at times :)

    2. nothing is real, and It's Your Thing. sweet! that was soooo good.

      it is indeed pretty effing amazing to be alive on this earth! feeling that, knowing that, appreciating that, and LIVING that from the heart will get you - and every(no)thing else! - to the best possible place it could ever be.

      that is a guarantee - an absolute Law of the Universe. not one iota more is required. no communing with the Goddess required (though if you meet Her, that is just another amazing effing bonus), no grieving for the roadkill badger one second longer than to say a heartfelt "thanks and goodbye" and NO effing hospice for any human one second longer than necessary to say goodbye to all the greedy delusions of human ego.

      the Universe does NOT want our grief. not for any second longer than necessary to fully feel it, and move ON. the Universe is so beyond our conception of death that it is simply not recognized as a reality. because death is NOT real.

      forget about what any of the idiots on NBL say about it. cancel it immediately. they simply are playing a game with themselves, which is perfectly FINE - but it is just a game of delusion, and that game is the same one that feeds all human ego. it is ALL connected that way. all of that nonsense about humans being driven by fear of death is simply the flip side of humans being in love with their ego delusion. as soon as any human is ready to step out of that, and step into life - the Real Life of the Universe, any human can. joining the rest of the world requires not one name, not one word, not one thing - but falling through, and soaring. Sabine has it, and lives it. it is right there.

    3. I think I understand your perspective Mo but tbh it isnt one that I totally share. I think im ok with death as having a few experiences in the past I am aware of the existence of other lands. But, right now, im here in this body as are all the other living beings I share this little bit of Land with. I grieve for the unnecessary deaths and the thoughtless things that cause deaths other than for bodily sustenance. It doesnt mean I dont function-I actually function reasonably well I think! But, in all honesty it saddens me greatly and angers me in equal part. My pleasures come from watching birds feed outside my trailer window and to watch the comings and goings of the green life that is still reasonably healthy here.
      So no arguments from me except to say, "which universe"? :0)

    4. red fox, I hadn't read your comments here when I went off writing about birds in my own.

    5. red fox, I can relate to you here:

      "I grieve for the unnecessary deaths and the thoughtless things that cause deaths other than for bodily sustenance."

      There's much suffering that could be eradicated with a little awareness but it's hard to come by. There's so much unnecessary suffering around.

  26. Good morning, and evening to those in 'great' Britain.

    Satish, I so wish I could meet you and Guy! And mo, and Artleads, and everyone. That would be so much fun, I imagine.

    I share Lidia's incredulity that Obama or anyone is going to respond to my emails. Unless they catch me writing about something illegal, and then they will be happy to prosecute me. The time to get with the program was about 1970. That was a long time ago. Things are dying en masse right now, everywhere. If the people with the power to act, those working directly with nuclear power won't do the right thing, then, the right thing isn't going to happen. About three generations of people who actually could have known better have failed to do the right thing for a very long time. Now, I don't want to spend my time looking for them and begging. I think the days are growing shorter and shorter.

    I look at the sky and it is so different now. Anyone my age can tell that we are not on the same planet we were on when we were children. Everything is off, different, dying. And it is overrun by an insane animal.

    I very much agree about the psychotic and anthropocentric self-absorption that is entirely invisible to the scientism-white-guy crowd. It is that core entitlement and assumption of superiority that they think is just "reality." They are never bigots; they're just right. It's always been that way.

    I thought ed's excerpt from Alice in Wonderland was perfect. I'm no fan of ed's, but that little post of his was exactly right. It's about who is master. All communications reinforce who is master with some people, and it's the only thing they really talk about.

    mo flow and I share a gift and like, mo, I've had many spiritual experiences that have left no doubt in my mind that this world is far from the beginning and the end of our eternal experience. However, as along as we are in the body, we are in the body, and we deal with multiple levels of reality, most of which is not conscious. And I can completely understand someone who has never had such experiences thinking I'm a full-blown nutcase. If I had not had such experiences, I would feel exactly the same.

    The Bible says these days will proceed like a woman's birth pains. The desolation will increase in frequency, intensity, and duration, until this world dies and gives birth to a new world. I so relate to that, not only from having had a child myself, but also I worked at an inpatient hospital labor and delivery and postpartum unit for a dozen years. I've seen birth, death, loss, joy, all of it, many, many times. I have seen thousands of newborn babies, not all of them healthy or alive. I was actually the administrator for our bereavement program in connection with fetal demise, and we were recognized by the state for our exceptional work in bereavement. When the state wanted to create a fetal demise birth certificate, they flew to Anchorage and consulted me. I remember when Joe D made comments about my motivations for joining a "grief support site" like Guy's.

    Oh, yea! There is such an atmosphere of grief support at NBL. I'm sure to look for assistance on that score over there.

    If I had not had spiritual experiences that changed my life, I would find these times, indeed all times, unbearable. There is so much more joy, love and peace available to us than what we can find here, no matter how "good" our lives may be. No earthly existence is that good, absolutely none of them, not even one. Nothing that is here began here or will end here. And that is the real problem. But I won't tell them "over there."

    1. Nothing that is here began here or will end here. That is the real answer, too.

    2. for the red fox running through the old growth forest... "which universe"? :)

      ~ Here ~

      what is it, really?
      it is what IT manifests.
      press "STOP" or press "PLAY"?

    3. Which universe? I guess whichever one I am aware of. :O) So far it looks like it always has, except for the changes.

  27. Dear oldgrowthforest,

    You mentioned how looking at the sky is so different now. Here, there's so much yellow, orange and beige in the sky. The once white clouds are rarely white now, always yellowish. It's quite eerie.

    I've seen the same in pics from the US. Amy Pike, who lives somewhere along the Pacific coast (I can't remember where, at the moment) posted some pics on a thread she started on the NBL forum some time ago. Beach views and her dogs. On those photos, there were yellow clouds just like here. This must be a world-wide phenomenon, a fairly new development. When I draw this to the attention of people here, they always tell me that they've not noticed before.

    Yes, things are changing fast now.
    I like my life here on our Earth. So far, joy has been my companion. I'm very content. Maybe I was lucky. Who knows.
    But what breaks my heart breaks every day is when I see these changes. It's life on Earth, the way humans have known it for so many thousands of years that I mourn for. Just being able to take for granted that life would carry on after you're dead, as all the generations before us did, would be great solace. Personal death is unimportant to me. I'm totally OK with that. At my age that's a great advantage.

    It's life, its the biosphere that matters - nothing else. That's why I love the gentle climate here on this island. There's still a bit of special magic here, in spite of the ominous signs ordinary people don't notice. You should see the colours already in my garden. Even with a cold north-east wind, the bumble bees were out. They don't care because like all wise beings, they truly live in the here and now. How could I not be joyful when they are and the birds are? To me, this is still paradise, and my only hope is that there will be another spring next year to keep the magic going (with my help).

    1. Sabine,
      I really liked what you said here:

      "It's life, its the biosphere that matters - nothing else. That's why I love the gentle climate here on this island. There's still a bit of special magic here, in spite of the ominous signs ordinary people don't notice. You should see the colours already in my garden. Even with a cold north-east wind, the bumble bees were out. They don't care because like all wise beings, they truly live in the here and now. How could I not be joyful when they are and the birds are? To me, this is still paradise, and my only hope is that there will be another spring next year to keep the magic going (with my help)."

      These islands are truly still magical-the Fortunate Isles indeed!
      The yellow clouds you talk of I have not seen in Norfolk. We get the "big skies" here on the Marshes and the sky is either heavy grey (today) or windswept blue with white scudders. I do go to Wiltshire a fair bit and have noticed a yellow tinge on occasions; I guess it is dependent on wind direction perhaps?

    2. Dear Sabine;

      It's lovely to think of you enjoying your English spring. I hope you have another, also. My most favorite time of the year has always been autumn. But since I have lived in the far north, by early March I hunger for spring like nothing else; but we all do. The winters are so long, sometimes, albeit not as long as they used to be.

      The stores and garden centers here are displaying bulbs and seeds, and everything for the outdoors is beginning to show up on the shelves. I love that part of this time of year. As soon as it is a little warmer, I'm going to get to work on my own garden and my shed-barn conversion I have planned. A friend brought me a dozen quite fresh eggs from her chickens, and they are so delicious and huge. I want my own flock. How I am going to manage it now with this northern hunter that moved in, I haven't yet figured out, but I will.

      I am too old for a dog like this. I am battered and bruised everywhere. But I haven't had this much exercise in over a decade and I'm turning brown on my hands and face from the walks.

      I know the yellow color you mean. There is a gray to the clouds now also, that I don't remember seeing ever before. I feel strange every time I see it. Also, the shapes of the clouds are different. I don't know the term for the kind of formation, but there is this lacey, wispy, fabric-y appearance that is alien, and that covers the sky. It was never here before, and now it's here all the time. I was very skeptical when people older than I am started mentioning these kinds of clouds about three years ago, but I'm not so skeptical anymore.

      I, too, am loving this spring, even though the dread in my belly is heavier than ever. Spring came suddenly, after more than two weeks of brutal, unseasonable cold, -15F to maybe +5F for a high. I had actually put my heaviest parka away for the season, I thought, only to pull it right back out of the closet and hang it back on the rack by the door.

      In the woods the mosses at the base of the trees are green and thriving. It is beautiful. Tall yellow grasses stand up and carpet places where the snow has melted, but there is still snow over most of the land. The dogs and I walk in woods without trails, where trees have fallen from storms and rot, piling up age after age. The woods are remarkably silent with the exception of a seemingly increasing raven population in my neighborhood.

      I have been a very avid student of all things birds for a long time. I love going out in the field with my binocs and just watching the wildlife, including the many birds. I have also been an avian rehabber working directly with injured or orphaned birds for our local licensed rehab center, and have raised mew gulls and Canada geese hatchlings that were returned to the wild when old enough. I have all the information on how to save really new baby birds if you are interested, how to feed them, etc. It's actually quite difficult, and you may be an expert in this already, so please excuse me if you are. I went to the same seminar a few years in a row to learn how to care for baby birds that had fallen out of a nest or were orphaned for some reason. (Hint: don't put them in the oven to keep them warm)

      It is a tremendously hard time, but to die in one world is to be born into another. And as Byron Katie says, God is not a sadist. :O)

  28. Obama or anyone is going to respond to my emails. Dan & I go to the Obama monthly. If I don't count, how about Alice Hill? Lot's of reasons to dislike any President. "Unless they catch me writing about something illegal, and then they will be (happy) to prosecute me" Like ARTLEADS said, "WH gets hundreds of calls." Anger is water off my back only threats to POTUS are illegal. "The time to get with the program was about 1970. people with the power to act, those working directly with nuclear power won't do the right thing." I'm working on in it in DC. (I admit today I'm in Mangrove harbor.) Last month Obama & others looked at the stuff I compiled from NBL, Greenpeace, Family Security Matters & World Wildlife. The comments included one from Satish. Satish has my cell #.
    Satish e-mail me a good question. I'd like to respond on this site when I'm not on a lap with tropical waves. It's a beautiful day but there is a oil slick in the marina. I could focus on the bloody Dolphin Japan Cove but each of us divides or attention. (pelicans are squaking overhead) try not to miss the the lovely moments. As a former Ranger I only ask who has 2 minutes to call about about what nuclear reactors are going to do to thousands of years after humans are gone? Is a letter before death not worth sending. We write so much other stuff. Any time this month to get your request counted to help prevent hundreds of years of mutations.

    When I get back to my D.C. computer I'd like to post some pics of Michelle and I last Oct in WH garden. At moments leaders are normal. Obama gets headaches & uses toliet paper. Just like ROSA PARKS on the back of the bus protests start with someone. My mother gathered women to petition Kennedy/Johnson to stop atmospheric testing. From Tucson she raised voices to help Kennedy have support for something he already wanted to do. Today, Dr. McPherson is one of the professional voices but it does not yet extent to radioactive effects after Extinction. Yes the radioactive Pacific is a catalyst to decommissioning Diablo Canyon. Next step: Nationalize nuke energy industry. Will we succeed ep before Methane or Yellowstone...well that's a Mo Flow ride...mixed real laws of gravity. Yet daily steps might leave this planet with less radioactive melt. In D.C. it only takes a 16% response rate. "About three generations of people who actually could have known better have failed to do the right thing for a very long time. Now, I don't want to spend my time looking for them and begging." Yes, when I was working for Gore we failed to say anything about the future dangers of pollution. It is our fault not the people who would not help reduce emissions. We are to blame for not reaching 16% percent (The 100th Monkey" principle) Past the point to change consumer habits so Geo-engineer is the plan to buy time. I was thrilled that Lilia screamed. Her anger x 16k more is all I need to start an Executive Action. Obama winked and said: "go stir them up." He's the one waiting for enough of a response on any issue to move it up the reply list. Might try to get the longest term danger off the grid. Germany & USA might leave Mother nature a bit less radioactive for her next sea trial...I removed mountains of plastic all by myself for 2 years in Costa Rica. Rarely was I angry. Should I not even try to get help for one last clean effort. We should not have stopped above ground atomic tests? Not write cause it might be risky & everyhing going to die anyway. Of course it would be great if each letter gets a personal Presidental reply. If no one cares an awful lot, no one will join them, they simply will not....

    1. Also, Mark, about your veracity, it's not pivotal to me at this time, and again, unlike Lidia, I was not questioning your veracity. It seems rather remarkable that you would be here with us , but I've seen far stranger things in the world. I would have to add that, the fact that you are talking to us here, to my list of things that make me really love my life. What a trip, kind of like my friend the countess, as I sometimes call her. I have no need to form judgments about things like that.

      All of us, our words stand on their own or they don't. However, I will say this; I voted for Mr. Obama the first time. After that, I quit voting, until Alaska put legal cannabis on the ballot. I voted for cannabis.

      Voting for Mr. Obama wasn't the smartest thing I ever did, but I did learn from it. And apart from pot, I haven't wasted my time at the voting booth since. I do, after all, live in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley in Alaska. They don't call us valley "trash" for nuthin'! :O)

  29. Mark, my comments were in no way a judgment on your veracity. I simply do not agree, and that may be my own limitations. I also agree with Guy, and I think we are far past the point of no return. As I wrote, I'm not spending what little time I have left in this world, which is short no matter how you look at it, doing that which you suggest, writing to any of them. If they have it in them to do something life serving rather than all the war, war, murder, stealing, war, bombs, weaponry, capitalism, chemicals, money, corruption and pinnacle of human evil that now dominates the entire world, they might want to get busy. There isn't much time left.

    I also disagree that Mr. Prez Obama is just another person, even if he is similar biologically and excretes bodily waste. Not Mr. Obama, or the Messrs. Bush, and certainly not the Messrs. Cheney, Rumsfeld, the NeoCons in charge, or the lawyers or the CEOs or the Bankers and the rest of the sociopaths in high places are the same as me. It is interesting. I have worked at Exxon, other oil companies, and two of the very top corporate law firms in the US, including Irell & Manella in LA. I have seen power in politics, too. I have been wined and dined and courted by rich and powerful men. My only wish is that I can stay as far away from people like that and their murderous armies and egos from now until my death.

    We've put things out there we can't control, like all the nuclear everything. It's not just the plants that are all going to melt down, it's all the waste that we can't handle now, today, that has been going on for 50 years.

    It's rather stunning how few years it actually took to destroy this beautiful, beautiful world. I agree with Guy's nurse, "Good."



    1. OGF,
      Re: Obama et al; "the leaders". I concur with you that they are sociopaths/psychopaths-souless in my own terminology.
      There is no reasoning.

      This from another site on how some indigenous would deal with the problem which it appears is not new.

      "Let us revisit the story of the kunlangeta, which provides clear evidence of the presence of psychopathic individuals in the very distant past;

      “A story reported by Dr. Jane M. Murphy, now director of Harvard’s Psychiatric Epidemiology Unit, serves as an example of the vigilant stance that one millennia-old indigenous culture – a group of Inuit in Northwest Alaska – takes regarding psychopathic types within their midst. (emphasis added)

      So aware is this group regarding the existence of these individuals that their language includes a term for them – kunlangeta – which is used to refer to a person whose “mind knows what to do but does not do it,” resulting in such acts as lying, cheating, stealing and taking advantage of the tribe without making sufficient contribution.

      And how seriously do the group’s members take the need to respond to the threat such individuals pose to the group’s sustainability? When asked what the group would typically do with a kunlangeta, Murphy was told ‘Somebody would have pushed him off the ice when nobody else was looking’.” (source)

      “Ancient Indians referred to the culture Christopher Columbus brought to the new world as “wetiko” – meaning a culture of cannibals – a culture that feeds off the lives of others.”

    2. I am very familiar with indigenous perspectives in that way, red fox. Indigenous, tribal people would not have tolerated such bad people as those who run this world, and they wouldn't have plundered the world to get rid of them, either.

      When I worked as a temporary for a summer for Exxon during the trial that took place in Anchorage in the early 90s, it was a small satellite office that Lee Raymond visited a couple of times. When I saw him I couldn't stop staring at him. He eventually glared at me for it, and I was fired soon after, no doubt for that and other congenital social deficits inappropriate to Exxon. I don't know why he thought I was staring at him, maybe just the fact that I was staring at all, but I knew I was in the company of one of the most evil psychopaths in the world when I was standing in a room with Lee Raymond. If he is not Satan incarnate, he is certainly a high ranking demon.

      I get all shuddery just thinking about those days and those rich and powerful men. No, they and I are not the same. Their world kills people like me.

    3. I wish to add, they can't live like they do unless they are killing people like me. One requires the other There is no compromise in these things, however much people may believe there are, is there red fox? A person has to choose their way of being in this world until the world is different than it is . . .

    4. Please pass me a joint if I survive D.C. Love to you forever for Peace Pilgrim. So much to deal with like your crazy scan clerk when you were returning dog treats. I was getting off the plane at MIA and your comment came up first. I should learn to wait to respond till I'm off the i-ph. Even the energy of airports effects my thinking. Peace pipe on the Yukon river. Looking forward to B.C. this July. I'll keep reading and try to say less. (I might be so outfoxed that for all I know Obama is truly a reptile. I'm an illegal alien. I might love radioactive wheeties after the meltdown.) Simply getting the Dept job was strange enough. But my life has been strange soul journey.

    5. OGF,
      You are right I believe; there can be no compromise in these matters where certain human behaviours cannot be tolerated in a proper healthy, small living community. Psychopathy appears to be increasing exponentially as well these days; inevitable I suppose given the increase in numbers of humans.

      My mum used to take in injured birds when she was alive. Now that she is no longer here I realise how very simple and mainly joyful her life was-growing things, healing things and caring for them. She never wanted for much else. I try to take my lead from her and others who appear to be similar such as Sabine and yourself. The best teachers are the simple teachers (I dont mean simple in a bad way but as in a back to basic way) I feel.

    6. red fox and OGF, this conversation is exactly what I've been hoping to have on this blog. Thanks for talking about "wetiko". I forgot about that term. The way you describe older cultures handling sociopathy amongst their peoples, that's exactly how I figured they would have dealt with them: Temporarily excommunicating those who might learn from punishment and permanently expunging the incorrigible member(s).

      I've written about sociopathy here - - and it remains an active area of interest for me. I sometimes wonder if it's a natural and normal part of creation and a way for it to unwind itself. But I don't understand why there needs to be so much suffering and why creation can't be extinguished quickly without pain after it has run its course. But then again, a few hundred years is "quickly" in the face of 2 Million years of our history. Are we that "lucky" to preside over this period of unwinding? I don't know.

    7. I just skim read your post Satish but will read it properly later when Ive more time. However, it melds very closely to another site I have been perusing quite a bit. You have probabaly come across it; its:

      His premise is "6%" although I have read a book here in the UK that suggests 25%. I think the 25 % theory includes the non 100% ers though. Personally, I lean towards the notion of the lower figures. This would mean in an average size band of foragers it would be about 1 person in 25-easily dealt with I would imagine.
      This is a tricky area because it inevitably includes highly subjective ideas about "evil" that I'm not entirely sure about as the term has been coopted by recent religions of the book. I certainly am of the opinion though that on the whole, the roots of civilisation, especially metallic and industrial civ have there genesis in a few psychopathic individuals or groups of individuals who come forward to "take charge" in times of some form of crisis. A huge subject.

    8. I find Eisenstein's comments about Native Americans to be entirely delusional and repellent. He has no right or grounds or qualifications to make such a god-like, omniscient statement about hundreds of millions of people that he likely has no relationship to other than being the beneficiary of their murders and the theft of everything they owned.

      It's the hubris. It's believing that we even need to know stupid crap like that, like cosmic reasons for mass slaughter. What we needed and need to know was/is how to Nurture Life, not hold intellectual judgments about "good and evil." Good grief, how freaklin' Genesis-Biblical.

      It's all okay because we now understand what appears to be "good and evil," and it was really an agreement on some cosmic plane.

      My cosmic plane of understanding says Mr. Eisenstein is just one more genocider, if he really thinks that. Maybe I can decide his young children made the same decision on a spiritual level, and it's okay if someone with a different omniscience kills him and them now. Trust me, I know we all decided this on a higher level, and murder is just how we "grow" and "evolve."


    9. ogf - I thought of writing something about this, but figured you could get to the heart of it much better than I could. the "root" here, again with this delusional take Eisenstein put forward is... bing - good ol' human ego.

      desperate to try and pin something down that it can grasp onto, and claim for itself, out of the infinite Creation that it has no control over, and that ego is simply terrified of.

      surrender means surrender - of all such delusions of godliness. what is left?

    10. It is my experience that the One, or spiritual understandings, are not usually given to people like me and Eisenstein or anyone else, when it comes to a God-like understanding of the creation.

      We are given what WE need to know individually, and it is primarily about what we should DO, not how we should look at or understand things. We are animals. Animals, like and not like the other animals, a little smarter than chimpanzees and some other really smart animals.

      And we are very confused animals, at that.

      I absolutely do believe in spiritual evil only because I have experienced it. I never did until I encountered something that changed my mind. We are like people in a scene in the second act of a three-act play, who are unaware of everything else in the play, and I do mean everything, including the whole of the play itself. We don't have all the information about our circumstances, and we're not supposed to. We can still understand what we are to do, and how to nurture the life around us. It comes from within, from our hearts, and it is 100% reliable, even to the point of death and beyond.

      Mark, Peace Pilgrim made some rather clear statements about beliefs and not-living those beliefs. Beliefs not lived are pretty meaningless, she said. We KNOW what is killing the world. The moment of our power is NOW. Stop killing the world and start nurturing, supporting its healing, NOW, right where you are, to the best of your ability.

      Peace wrote that as we live the light we have, more light is given to us. In my experience, she is correct. It is a step at a time, each one taken in the NOW based on the variables that exist NOW.

      Hills and valleys, she said, conflict between the two ways, a higher will, or the little will. There is no compromise possible between those two ways of being, and only one leads to peace. She also wrote that we all have a unique job in the world, and we can only know it from within. I never took her words to mean that we can know what needs to be "organized."

      We didn't make this world. We didn't make ourselves. The only thing that makes any of it okay for me is knowing that this world is not all there is, and so far, as dreadful as it all looks, right now I'm not doing so badly. The sun is shining, Puppyman and Arlo are playing and they are huge beasts, and I love their animal strength and grace and beauty.

      Knowing what to do only comes from the Now for me, and I try to be open to the love and guidance available to me.

      I think I've decided on Ameraucana and Rhode Island Red bantams for my chickens. They are both prolific layers of beautiful blue and green eggs (the Ameraucana), and brown eggs (RIRs). Any volunteers who want to visit Alaska this summer and help me patch my mini-farm and garden together can receive a free one-room cabin, without water, to sleep in, and can take showers in the house. You can be a tourist as long as you want and go anywhere you want using my property and separate cabin as a base. I even have a spare vehicle that would require a tune-up, a 2000 Mazda MPV van (it's a beater), that can be used for camping if you want to pay for some insurance for it.

      I'm becoming addicted to my walks in the forest with the dogs. These aren't really "walks." They are wilderness hikes without trails, over fallen trees, and through Devil's Club and wild roses. Puppyman has done this to me. If he and I "work it out," (OMG, that sounds horribly familiar and exactly like the problem I never ever wanted to have again with another male of any kind whatsoever) I will be a really strong 65-year-old in a few years, and he will be magnificent.

    11. wow ogf - not a speck of anything I could disagree with there! I'm 100% in harmony with you. some things here a scary on target, tbh. but nothing to do but be in the NOW. this is so beyond it. all there is, all there ever will be.

      wish we could be there this summer! I've been in Alaska in the summer, and it is out of this world. great to hear you are moving ahead with the chickens, and that Puppyman is transforming you. :)

    12. "ARE scary on target"

  30. red fox -

    "have any of us actually asked any other non human living spirit what it wants and what it thinks of our own behaviour; what we can do to help that spirit? I have asked but have never got a response that I could understand or "hear". "

    it is simply impossible to hear the answer, unless you *know* your own living spirit.

    only one can hear the other.

    it has to be Being to Being, on that level.

    (human ego is entirely out of the picture on this level, thank God - it just totally knows what the meaning of "listen" is, finally!)

    the even more simple truth: when you know your spirit, you would never even have to ask this question! the entire Universe will be telling you so much, you will barely be able to keep up.

    fortunately, as always, "you" don't have to worry about keeping up. the level of you that knows how to listen and live all of this is always enjoying life, and living life, FAR beyond anything you conceive of. it is when you *know* this, that you can hear, and miss nothing, and never even wonder or worry about what *exactly* the messages are, because you understand them perfectly and instantly, and you know that you can completely forget about *where* they come from, or how.

    you have simply become so much of the message yourself, you don't even think it's possible NOT to hear, and be the most integral part of the conversation, all the time.

    it is the most joyful way of being possible. nothing, but nothing, is better. and it is yours for the living, and the loving,



    JUST TAKE IT, if you can. everything out there is simply lusting to give it to you. :) trust me, I know.

    1. Sorry Mo, but I dont agree with your take on this at all.
      It is necessary to ask "the" question. It is possible to hear the answer if there is one; other times there is silence and no need to be inundated with information. Silence can be a more profound answer than a reply imo.
      And to your last point, I would simply say that no one "knows" or has the answers, especially us screwed up people who live as tamed domesticates in this era no matter what experiences they may have had (I think everyone that I know has experienced something of the nature that we are speaking of, it isnt unique).
      I would ask again ( Sabine has answered this), what is it that other non human living beings are saying or feeling with regard to how things are? Are they speaking and who is listening?

    2. "I would simply say that no one "knows" or has the answers"

      you know waaaaay beyond millions of things, right now, and are actively doing them as applied knowledge, otherwise you would simply drop dead! this just touches the tip of the iceberg, to say the very least. :)

      you are also constantly being a living answer to the entire Universe. we LOVE it. thanks!

  31. red fox -

    additionally, you have already put your finger on the core of something vital, with your general suspicions about the eventually "separating" role of the shaman in the world.

    every single one of us is an absolutely unique being. (I have stressed this repeatedly, and this is so vitally important to understand for humans). while monarch butterflies are wonderfully amazing beings, they and almost all other members of the natural world have more of a group soul within their larger existence in the Universe.

    this is not the case for us, at all. in fact, it is quite the opposite, by design.

    though we share the same species designation, what we are in Light Being and soul form is incredibly different from human to human. we share the same Source, but not only is every human fingerprint unique, but the fingerprint of our Light Beings takes this *so* much further it is almost totally impossible to grasp.

    so - what "one person" on the soul or Light Being level, is going to hear from a non human living spirit is going to be very tailored for *that unique being* - and the message for that being *might* be of rather limited, or even completely, nonexistent value for another unique Light Being.

    meaning: I may receive a message from the "spirit of the Monarch Butterfly" - and it might be something very pointed, and very meaningful. but this meaning might very well be *entirely* meant only for me, as it was given.

    you could have a convo with exactly the same being, and get a completely different message.

    this is the nature of being a mature adult Being in the Universe. we are not treated like preschoolers anymore, and talked to like some kind of amorphous group that needs to be led around by the nose. (like by a shaman, as a possible example)

    we are expected to acknowledge, and totally OWN, our uniqueness in the Universe, and the unique perspective and gifts we bring to the world. each of us has something to contribute - something of vital importance for the collective - but we must claim our unique connection to the larger collective in the Universe, and the *unique* Beings, Spirits, Elementals, group Souls, etc, there will treat us accordingly.

    this is why Sabine is completely on target with the idea of forgetting about names and so on. these "names" only serve as labels, not as real experience. the real experience is always something that only lives in our core, and is communicated core-to-core, throughout the Universe. that experience does not have names.

    so - the reason you absolutely need to know your *own* living spirit is because that is the only place that the real message can be experienced. not in the conditioned commonality of the human ego, or anything like it.

    1. Mo,
      Again I mainly disagree with your take on this! Whilst certainly agreeing that every living being is unique (how could it not be if alive) I definately do not consider that "they and almost all other members of the natural world have a group soul". I make no distinction at all between species and certainly do not recognise a hierarchy other than a food chain one (the one at the top being most vulnerable of course). We as a species are exactly the same in all respects as all the other living beings we share this place with. We are not unique amongst species, but as individuals. TBH, I have a real antipathy towards the thinking that "we are different" and I know that we are not. My knowing like your knowing is of course subjective and personal :)

      Im afraid you lost me with talk of "light beings"; that is a term which I turn off from!

      Im sorry I havent agreed with you much here but my experience suggests to me that things are different to how you perceive them. But it's all good. Better 10,000 cultures than one monoculture.
      Meanwhile, back to the green world; the sun just shone her face briefly...

    2. Red Fox,

      I'm with you when you say that you don't like this thing about group soul (of a species). To me this feels like hierarchical thinking which I cannot believe exists on any other but the human level. A social construct made by humans. That's one of the reasons I don't like naming. That's when we can lose it, put living beings into categories and go down the wrong path. I'm pretty sure though, mo doesn't mean it like that. Mo?
      But as you say, it's better than monoculture. I also have an antipathy towards thinking that humans are different, special. To me that's a total illusion. Try as I might, I can never feel that I am :)) To me, knowing anything at all is always subjective, and that's precisely why I think I can connect on my individual level. I felt most of my life that the anthropocentric view is very misleading (plain wrong), even before I knew the word existed:). And when it creeps in, I try to banish it quite consciously. In our culture that's necessary sometimes. That's why being among others than humans is so important. As long as you never think of yourself as just an observer. Do you agree?
      But it's also interesting to see how different we all are, in spite of having so much in common.

      I'm also like you in so far as not being able to connect to the term "light beings". Sorry mo. It's probably because I always feel my flesh, my individual piece of matter.... even when processes on different levels of awareness unfold for me. I feel myself to be an Earth-bound being....that's why a healthy biosphere is EVERYTHING to me. That's IT.
      Again, That's probably a unique experience, but who am I to say...
      As you say: " My knowing, like your knowing, is subjective...." What else can it be? That's why I can't cope with "group consciousness". I don't intuit that. Again, sorry mo.

    3. just remember - language is language, and "listeners" are listeners. what one word or one meaning is in this teeny tiny little part of EVERYTHING - now that is nothing to be sorry about!

    4. mo,

      you're a generous, understanding , wise being and I like listening to you, no matter what.

    5. That's cool Mo :)
      Sabine, yes, I consider myself Earth bound like everything else that lives here. The reason I have a hard time with the light being thing is because of all the new age stuff I ploughed through many years ago. I do not like the new age "movement" at all. Light being is used a lot therein so that is my reasoning; plus, i'm probably made up of dark matter ;0)

      The observer effect, is im sure, not helped in modern life by being continually shut out from the real world or separated from it by a pane of glass or screen. The times I give no thought to it is when im out there or with other animals/birds close by. If there is such a thing as a natural state it surely must be defined as participation rather than detaching either voluntarily or not.

      Talking of animals, my ex wife has a couple of cats (she has a trailer/caravan on site as well!). Ive always thought myself as a dog person but one of the cats has a lovely personality and always makes a bee line for me. We play around and I encouraged her to jump across some old tree stumps like an agility test. Cats would not do this if they didnt want to (theyre anarchists you see Mr Nye!). Anyway, away from day to day chores and such like that is when the feeling of being apart vanishes, when back in the real world of living things.
      I belong to this Earth and for the moment I dont feel to be a spirit or anything living inside "my body" but I am all of it enmeshed together until such time that it unravels. Then perhaps, the eternal part will move deeper into the Earth which is where the Other realms are in my cosmology.

    6. "The reason I have a hard time with the light being thing is because of all the new age stuff I ploughed through many years ago. I do not like the new age "movement" at all. Light being is used a lot therein so that is my reasoning"


      do you think my living knowledge of what I am has anything to do with the New Age? this is not a rhetorical question. I am inviting a real answer!

      if a cute little hedgehog walked up to me, and said, "I am an eagle!" and started climbing a tree to reach a high place he could scan for prey to swoop down upon, or "I am a shark!" and jumped into the ocean and tried to eat a monk seal, that I would think this funny little guy was doing anything but playing some quirky and inspired game of pretend?

    7. Mo,
      No, not at all. I was suggesting that the whole light being terminology is highly dualistic-it doesnt affect how you perceive of yourself-it does me however. I wasnt being entirely flippant when I said to Sabine about dark matter either. There is nothing inherently "good " or "bad" about light or dark. It just is. I, personally dont identify with light, but rather with dark which is where Life is born from.

    8. red fox -

      I know you weren't being entirely flippant, and I knew you were being quite serious on some level (winky smiley or not :)

      again, you have to understand something from experience. but what this really means is from my experience, and we can only share that on other levels, of which this language is a very pale shadow indeed.

      I know that being a Light Being does not mean anything in the conventional New Age sense (and I think you know I know that, too :)

      what the living experience is to me, both on Earth and "elsewhere" - is beyond "light" or "dark," and is completely nondualistic.

    9. Red Fox,

      Having nothing to do with the exchange between you and Mo, I just want to share that I too like darkness--darkness and mystery is how I think I expressed it to Lidia. :-)

  32. Special brief comment replies to each of you above. SABINE thank you so dearly for understanding me. I'm actually crying. I'm probably as stupid as happy Forest Gump but I've been so close to death that I have no fear of sharing really personal feelings. No fear of Love. No worry about attempting the impossible yet again. All the stars are twinkling on this clear night....OGF, ART, FOX a bit more above. Sabine you read me so well. Thru each of you I'm learning how to blog.

  33. exactly the process Mark is talking about, just on a much larger scale. but you gotta start somewhere, and when this gets rolling, we may actually be able to prevent large scale disaster for whatever follows us, as Mark talks about - for the life force, for whatever nature still exists, that follows IC collapse.

    THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU. for the life force, for whatever nature still exists, that follows IC collapse. You totally understand. clear & simple. Some Dolphin spirit might like to return to earth to swim around here again. I'm a fairly silly sailor but let's be serious about the grain of uranium left on deck. I know your busy busy busy beavers thinking about roots and looking for meaning....but for just a second please think about what your leaving behind...the rest of eternity might not be all about humans. Share the evolution. Animals do feel real pain in this reality, maybe the next one 2. Many Dogs & Gods also unconditionally love you. wag wag (-) carry on.

  34. Dear oldgrowthforest,

    Thanks for you lovely long reply describing your spring in Alaska. Even though we have lived such different lives, we've come to the same conclusions. It's connecting on this individual spirit level, they way mo puts it so well (thanks mo) that makes this happen. Humans, animals, plants, land, ocean, stone soil you name it (even though naming them, particularly in a certain order with humans on top) is not what I should be doing. But how else can we get it across when we only have our modern languages as writing tools. You all know what I mean.

    Thanks for relating your experience with the Exxon psychopath. My husband Nick used to work for BP, from 1970 until 1990, when he left because he couldn't take it anymore. For reasons very much like yours. He really didn't fit the corporate guy image and consequently wasn't promoted in the way that others were. I used to tell him that it was a badge of honour. At the time, it was quite a risk, if you looked at it from the conventional point of view. I was working free-lance as a translator (not earning that much) and we had a mortgage. However, we also had some savings because he used to earn more than average. So we paid off our mortgage and developed my translation activities into a translation agency. It didn't make us much money but that was never the point. It let us live well enough, the way we wanted to and totally free of debt. We've given up the agency now. Businesses prefer to get a Google translation and pay some language student a pittance to edit it. It's all about cost cutting and PR to make it sound harmless, good. You know what I mean. Even if we wanted to, we couldn't compete with machines.

    Red Fox,
    I do feel blessed living here on this gentle island, I know you feel the same. Did you hear about the genetic study of UK populations which "discovered" that most modern Brits are pretty much like modern Germans genetically? That made me laugh because I know people who'll be pretty pissed off by that. Ha, ha!

    mo flow,

    Thanks for explaining so well that "everyone of us is an absolutely unique being........" Because that's exactly my experience, as it is yours, I've known that for some time. We unique humans connect through our spirit with other unique beings (living and Others). As I described before, this is how it unfolds, because I experience it not so much as a state of being but as a process. The one thing I do feel though is that what we call spirit and matter (including flesh in the modern religious sense) is one, at least while here on our Earth. How the spirit or consciousness that seems to be able to experience itself apart is actually the same as matter (here, as you might say in this incarnation), I don't know. Where ever I go, whatever unfolds, I seem to take my body, even in other "states" (of heightened awareness). Call it what you want. I just accept all of this for what it is and enjoy my connection.

    You are so right, this is true joy but you can't force it. Through the right awareness, it reveals itself, it unfolds. But again, using pronouns (naming) somehow demeans this experience. You know what I mean, and like you, living like this is wonderful from day to day, RIGHT NOW as you say... even though I have no illusions about NTE. I have no anxiety there. One of the reasons is that I don't want to communicate anxiety to any of my beloved other beings. I like them to experience me on a joyous level. What better motivation could there be for making a conscious effort to live like that.

    what I'm doing when I understand you is just that, try my hardest to think myself into your spirit, try and connect on a level with you, the way mo describes it. I feel we all do that here. We "hear" each other in our written words, so no matter how you write, I can hear you. And like OGF I'm quite amazed that you are here with us....and very, very pleased!

    1. Hi Sabine, so many jobs are being lost due to automation these days. Even traditionally high-paying careers like trial attorneys, radiologists, anesthesiologists, etc. are at risk due to advancements in Computer Science. It's a scary prospect that people will not be as necessary to the elite.

  35. Mark and others,

    I'm not full of beans this morning, so I'm dragging myself to noting some thoughts that kept me up. Very simple and provisional, like a quick sketch.

    Shutting down and/or nationalizing nuke plants is overwhelming to contemplate. If petitions came across my screen, I'd support either or both. But there are related issues as well.

    Over on there is much talk about oil coming to an end. Largely through the expense of going after the difficult to drill stuff, compounded by the inability of the public to afford more expensive gas. Jobs going away through automation, etc. Solar panels, as Satish points out, are not a sustainable or humane alternative, although each roof having solar panels and selling excess energy to the grid might be a great transitional step. Also rather overwhelming a thought.

    It's all overwhelming, unfortunately.

    But the other (overwhelming) shoe is conservation. Community planning for energy conservation so that the (unimaginable) demise of big oil and big green together wouldn't leave the society totally unprepared. In any event, more resiliency in local communities seems like an unquestionable benefit.

    This could entail a macro drive (top down) to enable local communities (bottom up) to be more resilient, therefore emphasizing PASSIVE SOLAR adaptation of existing buildings and, more emphatically, of NEW buildings; weatherization of all buildings; smaller new buildings, etc., etc., etc.

    I'm trying to promote that where I live, and I hope a groundswell of people doing the same all over will ensue. A huge part of the puzzle is growing food locally--backyards, rooftops, etc. The infrastructure is there already, only needing the will and (perhaps) political support.

    Anyway, this is mostly a space saver quick note that will see some refinement in time...

    1. Artleads,

      We have had solar panels and an independent solar water heater for just over 10 years now. At the time, we thought that this was a really good idea. That was before the UK had feed-in tariffs (getting paid more than the market price for feeding what you don't use back to the grid, a German idea) were introduced here on the island.

      I agree with Satish that these kind of tech solutions are not a good idea and very damaging because of what is needed for their manufacture etc., like all engineered "solutions" to reduce the "carbon foot print". But at the time it seemed to be good. Since then so many here in my village have had solar panels installed. They all get higher feed-in tariffs paid out. We haven't had those feed-in incentives for some years now because when solar became popular, our government stopped them for people like us who had solar panels installed before a certain date. So we only get paid the market price for the energy that our system feeds back to the grid. Nevertheless, over a year, we never actually pay for electricity.
      We also had some batteries installed and can survive without grid power for up to 3 days. All German engineering directly from Germany at the time. If I were not German, this would have never happened then. There you go...

      This is all very well but come the collapse, it's not going to help much. And if I think of all the extraction and engineering that produced this for us... I feel quite awful. At the time, it seemed a good way to spend our savings.... How times and perceptions change.
      In the meantime, it keeps our outgoings low.

      Here, most people install solar because of those savings. They think of it only in economic terms.
      I know you were talking about passive solar, not what I've been talking about.
      The ground-swell of change we would need to live our lives within the limits of our Earth(environment) is so enormous that I find it completely hopeless.

      I usually never recommend writers and thinkers that get to the root of the problem (conundrum) as far as I'm concerned, but I'm reading Charles Eisenstein at the moment, The Ascent of Humanity, which Satish lists as one of his favourites. I'm glad I'm reading it because he really gets to the root. And he writes so well! It's an easy read, he's a bit of a genius, I hope his mother agrees!
      If you're not yet familiar with any of his ideas, please read him. He's only young but oh so wise, with a brilliant mind.
      He's mostly optimistic (more like you? and he has children) unlike me... but still, he's truly inspiring even to for an old woman.

    2. Hi Sabine,

      We have solar panels too, bought in the manner you describe. Today, I would debate more as to whether the same (significant bucks) wouldn't be better spent weatherizing the house and thickening the south walls...

      Our solar system feeds into the grid and we get small checks in summer sometimes. But if the grid fails, we have no power. I dream that we would (miraculously?) acquire the money to convert the system so that we were entirely off grid. Just the thought of that possibility gives a small boost to the sense of independence.

      I completely agree that the manufacture of PV panels is a human and environmental nightmare. Funnily enough, before I understood the practical issues, I disliked PV purely because they were so shiny, slick and unnatural in appearance. I knew something was wrong with them.

      So you are correct to caution against my earlier post recommending, albeit as a temporary measure, the large-scale use of PV solar. However, if you're trying, like Mark, to work within the system, which gout do we choose? Eisenstein talks about the caterpillar's metamorphosis to a butterfly. The butterfly didn't come from outer space or out of the ether--it organically morphed from a real physical creature, simply by turning off some genes and switching on others. Applied to human society, that would be like switching off certain behaviors and switching on new ones. There is nothing in the least bit difficult about safeguarding nuclear facilities; it's just that doing such things is not how we behave, not in keeping with our memes or trances. Likewise, we could happily dispense with industrial civilization and rampant injustice if we so chose.

      I've listened to radio and Youtube presentations by Eisenstein. He impresses me a lot. Yes, I'm optimistic too. I've ben depressed all my life, and my default position is gloom and horror. That is the basic framework. The optimism is a side of me that was long buried but would surface on occasion. Maybe it was always there somewhere as a way of coping with impossible (psychological) odds. Heaven know quite whence it sprang, how and why. So, today, I look at my awareness/experience as a clock that inevitably runs down. I must constantly wind it to keep it going. I must continually correct negative and unpleasant thoughts. But it's even more than that. I have very good intuition, and it has guided me into old age. I keep repeating, my intuition does not tell me that NTE is inevitable or even likely. Possible for sure. This is all based on intuition, like an animal reading body language, reading the body language of my world.

      Having been born in the country part of a third world nation, growing up before, during and after the war, I'm extremely aware of how people manage with scarcity. My art training has augmented that basic knowledge, making it clear how beautiful and resourceful ignored and discarded materials are. So, what western people see as impossible difficulty I see as luxury.

      What frustrates me to no end is western people trying to tell me it's hopeless when they have absolutely no clue how creative it's possible to be--as many third world cultures attest, as the arts attest. But I'm in this company because I KNOW (and have long known) how absolutely dysfunctional and hopelessly wrong this civilization is. I don't want to be around people who don't know this. The only difference is in how I interpret what we all know.

    3. Hi Artleads, I can relate to you on growing up in a third world nation, more on the country side than the urban. There are so many differences between the cultures that upon closer examination point to some of the reasons why things are so out of balance. Just the concept of using "toilet paper" is mind-boggling, even after all these years living in the West. We cut down trees to make that paper? What kind of culture is that? Apparently we also cut down 100 Million trees every year to make paper for junk mail. I don't know how it is in Britain, Sabine, but here, it's a constant barrage of useless advertisements in the mail every week. All printed on paper. Just today, I got a thick book called the Local Yellow Pages directory that I never asked for. They put a copy in front of all the neighbors. Some residents don't even pick them up, leaving them by the doorstep to get hot, wet and even more yellow.

      I came across this talk recently - where Ozzie Zehner exposes some of the insider knowledge about the efficacy of solar cells and the feasibility in replacing conventional sources of power by solar on a mass scale. He doesn't think it's doable. There's been a lot of money in "green" for years now and just like Western Civilization displaces indigenous peoples to convert their land to grow red palm and other cash crops that go into making ethanol for their cars, the whole green movement is suspect.

    4. Hi Sabine, I like Charles Eisenstein's book for what he mentions and how he weaves them all together to paint a cohesive picture of the state of the modern world. I have to tell you though, that of late, I am not so impressed with where he's going. I have been keeping abreast of his work for the last couple of years and just last year, I attended a couple of talks he gave in the area here. Both were at private homes in well-to-do areas, but that's not my complaint. It's what he tells the audience... which is... keep calm and carry on. Technology is great. We're going to see massive evolution, etc. What really ticked me off is when he told this group of White people at an upscale country home in Northern California: the suffering that the Native Americans have gone through and continue to go through is because of a pact that human beings of all races came together to make a long time ago in which the Native Americans had agreed or decided to take up the challenge of suffering that is necessary for humanity as a whole to make it to the next stage of evolution. I was really upset with that twisted notion of sacrifice that he posited to his gullible and receptive audience that day and I decided I've had enough of him.

      In many ways, I had also grown beyond what he says over and over (but that's bound to happen over time). I'd recommend his book to most people still but I thought I'd tell you where I stand with it all today :)

    5. Hi Satish,

      I'm not really surprised about all this, but what shocked me was: "the suffering that the Native Americans......a pact that humans beings of all races...." That outrageous!!! Why would he want to say/believe that? That's insane. I have an idea why....

      What I'm reading in his book is well put together and easy to understand: the history, the way he weaves it into an intricately patterned cloth. But I've also twigged on to his prophetic message, his mission statement. Why do people (seen from Europe, mainly an American habit, sorry) always spoil it?
      But Satish, he isn't in the same place as you, and where I am too. He calls himself a de-growth activist but he never seems to consider that a world like that could never support 7 billion, let alone more people. Who's going to die to save the biosphere in time, how many of us? I often think that most of the people alive now should have never been born, that includes me. But we know why we're all here, which development has made this overpopulation possible. Saviours never think of this.....unless they have evil intent like Hitler. Charles Eisenstein has not connected that. I think he's quite genuine about his theory of evolving into the next stage. All of it quite the opposite of his analysis of our conundrum. How people fool themselves, and how human that is.

      Yet he has young children, so basically, under this perfectly sensible, educated and insightful person hides a utopian. So human. I left that sort of thing behind a long time ago, so have you, I feel. I never believed in Utopia. I'm like you, watching times unfold, without illusion, living in the here and now but joyfully. For me, that's quite easy, maybe part of my nature? I don't know.

      I'm at a loss think think what might have motivated him there, in this upscale home in Northern California, apart from wanting to come up with a "pleasing, probable" answer for his audience who must have paid him well for his talk. Or am I being cynical? Or should I call it realism? I'd also say that he's fooling himself (for the sake of his children). Maybe the grief would be too overwhelming for him if he were honest.
      This having to suffer for the "next stage of evolution" is an age-old concept anyway. He alludes to this and similar myths in his book. Man's favourite myth. So why is he fooling himself now? I have several ideas there, and I'm sure you do too.
      Whatever I read, any information I take in from any source, I take what seems to fit, what might help me understand better. And I've got a good nose for missionaries and people who think they can solve all our problems.

      One of the things I really like about you is that you're just "bearing witness". You have no answers apart from what Guy recommends. That's integrity.

    6. Hi Sabine, you're right about Eisenstein... he's a Utopian and will connect the vast library of facts he has access to and talks about in a way that supports his Utopian standpoint. It's a good example of how people believe in things first and then pick and connect the facts to what they believe. He talks about this himself actually. I'm sure I'm doing that too all the time: supporting my belief with the observations I come across and my interpretation of them. But after a while, the Utopian talk begins to fail one, with the ongoing destruction, increasing in intensity day by day. And then there's always what's beyond the physical world that will come to the rescue because that's where the new story will unfold and hence it's not subject to the laws of the current physical world. Perhaps, like OGF, says, we don't know about all the acts in the play. Perhaps Eisenstein sees things I don't but perhaps he's just selling books and online courses to feed himself and his three children. We won't know that either.

      There is also a strong tendency to think, "well, if it has come to pass, it must have been ordained so and hence it's OK." It's as if everything that ends up happening is meant to happen. I sometimes spend time thinking along those lines too but the widow of the "third world" farmer who commits suicide due to crushing debt probably doesn't think it was all meant to happen. And neither do the Native Americans or the hundreds of other Indigenous peoples who continue to be murdered daily to meet the voracious appetite of the cancer that civilization has long become. But then some say everything that happens to us is meant to teach us a lesson. As if that's how the Universe shows its loving healing side: tough love!

      I think you are right, it was perhaps just a matter of expediency and convenience that Eisenstein said that to his audience. People look to him for answers. They sense an unjust world and they sense their own good fortune among the large scale destruction and they seek answers. Instead of saying "I don't know", speakers and authors have to make up theories. Of course, he didn't want his talk recorded. People who admit they don't know don't fare well in this culture. I asked Charles about his very first book. I wanted to see how his thinking has evolved over the years because I had read his other two books: "Sacred Economics" and "The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know is Possible". His first book wasn't to be found in print anymore. He told me he had it recalled. I wondered if it said things that were contradictory to what came later. I didn't press him on it.

      He has to come up with answers. Followers switch to those who are more consistent and confident, or at least appear so. One way to see Eisenstein's work is to say someone took on the task of allaying the fears of "his people". His audience is self-selected and they need him and he needs them. He's there to provide them succor in a time of great spiritual and psychological devolution. Perhaps, as the only non-White, I shouldn't have been there in the first place and it would have all been OK!

      Yes, we're just trying to bear witness. And what an elaborate play to behold!

      Optimists, they say, are those that jump off a tall building and as they pass each floor on their way down, they say to themselves, "so far so good". Maybe you heard of that before but it just does a great job of explaining certain perspectives these days.

    7. Hi Satish,

      "We cut down trees to make that paper?"

      There are many times when I feel snug as a bug, pleased with myself, considering myself to be cat's meow for doing the right thing. Then comes pushback by someone who goes further. I do lots of innovative things with discarded materials--like using junk mail to draw on (and much more), while my neighbor has managed to avoid getting any packaging or junk mail in the first place. If he chose, he could grow all his food for the year. For all I know, he already does. But maybe being pure isn't my calling. I think what I'm supposed to be doing is finding creative and super easy way to reuse waste or to grow (some) food. If my current Fukuoka-related experiments are half as successful as I dream, it will be encouraging. I've also been cutting up brown paper bags from shopping into rectangular pieces, then using them as partial substitutes for paper towels. I still use paper towels, but it now lasts twice as long. So, half measures designed not to avoid but to lessen need for industrial civilization is how it's progressing. It's a very gradualist and incremental approach. I also dream that a radically scaled down but more joyful (third world) version of civilization can emerge in time to lessen the initial collapses, allowing time for us (or the universe) to figure out what comes next. All in stages. One thing at a time.

      I don't like solar panels. We just impulsively went with them after meeting a salesman in Home Depot. My wife is supposedly the sensible one, and since she was for it, I figured it was OK. The way to go might have been a wood stove (not a favourite for my spouse) and weatherizing and modifying the house. But there was nobody standing there in Home Depot ready to take on the job. There are ways not to use significant IT to warm and cool a house, but there's no industry to help you do it cheaply and efficiently. That should change. Meanwhile, better wood stove and building technology would help. But that would, on an industrial scale, be just as ruinous as anything else. The issue is the capitalist trance we're in...

      Again, half measures. As you say, there's needless and avoidable suffering. Not so much due to our energy sources, I think, even nuclear, as to the bloody-minded, mad, stupid, inhuman way our economic system works.

      I believe it is only the women (primarily the Western Women mentioned by the Dalai Lama) who can steer this ship past the iceberg.

      A global scale, humane economics, comprised of a network of small local units awaits a massive educational movement ahead of the impending crash.

    8. I also dream that a radically scaled down but more joyful (third world) version of civilization can emerge in time to lessen the initial collapses.

      You've been so inspiring in your details here and before in other comments. I cant find your exact quote but what you said said about another world being same as here but without economics (greed) as the prime driver.

      Think about how different it would be if true sustainability, maintenance, health were the steady state for less than a billion living in harmony. Crime & war not even a concept. not even as drama. Can't prevent accidents so there would still be emergency services & hospitals. But police & courts would be a tiny side issue for odd reasons.

      I think what I'm supposed to be doing is finding creative and super easy way to reuse waste or to grow (some) food. If my current Fukuoka-related experiments are half as successful as I dream, it will be encouraging. I've also been cutting up brown paper bags from shopping into rectangular pieces, then using them as partial substitutes for paper towels.

      I also do the same as you with used envelopes.

    9. When I reread what I wrote above, it seems shockingly simple and out-of-context with the catastrophe we've been discussing for years. But there is (intended to be) method to the madness. I try to immerse myself in the mass consciousness--actually, I don't try; it comes naturally to me. To the mass culture, nothing is particularly amiss. Everything is OK, and life will go on indefinitely the way it (supposedly) has before. Even older, quite intelligent people remain conveniently "'unaware" that the human population has doubled in the last 40 years, even to ask what's up with that, even despite their having lived far longer than that. Why doesn't the crisis get through to them? Well, the sun keeps shining, the cars still run, and the worst horrors are happening out of sight. Collapse is happening too fast for those far away, and too slow for us here. Personally, I feel a deep sense of responsibility to do something, to pay forward for the exceptionally easy and pleasant life I lead.

      So maybe I'm trying to take the situation at face value (re the culture around me). It's sort of like saying, OK, let's assume that everything is not all that hopeless. You must agree, however, to certain basic truths. Population increase, the lack of water, sprawl development, endless growth... Even if you think there are solutions, you can't deny these things, can you? So I talk about half measures, tiny changes, subtle shifts. For all the smart people, who have thought through all the angles, this must seem like the essence of naivete'. And I can't swear that it isn't. But I feel that you can't change anything big (like climate death) if you can't change small things first. And it makes no sense to me to leap frog over the bulk of humanity, and stand apart as a tiny minority who "get it," while the others are deemed hopelessly obtuse, even irrelevant.

      But being alive in this wonderful moment of ease, community, relative plenty is something so extraordinary, given what we know of the wider issues. How did such a wonder come to be? Even for a second? I tend to see the glass as half full rather than half empty, and perhaps am trying to propose a way not to empty it. Maybe mine is a mystical view, but I feel bound to respond to the opportunities to do the small things that present themselves to be done. What other choice is there? Others want to commune with the vast wilderness, while I am happy enough with the blade of grass growing up though the crack.

      People and animals are dying in mass all over the world. The impetus of my thought is to try and stop this. Maybe half these deaths could be avoided with a small intrusion of Confusius-like common sense and order. Let's just do the right thing, and stop reaching for the moon (or sinking to the depths).

      I'm back to the parable of the loaves and fishes. Jesus was able to feed the multitude with a tiny sampling of fish and loaves. The bible says that he divided up the food. So did the small (microscopic?) portions become magically filling just through the magic of downsizing? If so, there is room and resource aplenty for all the billions on earth. Since I cannot feel in myself the slightest feeling of hopelessness, I assume there is something to this theory. It is all about magic.

    10. ARTLEADS - Wow I gotta print your above thoughts and run (or at least get going at jog pace past the Lincoln memorial.) This is tremendous good stuff for my desk. And I will print you on the back of slightly used pages. I've been a recycle, bicycle man forever.

  36. Mark, I wrote you a heartfelt, bot-length tome and erased it right at the end! Dang!

    I don't think you are outfoxed by anyone. The short version of my verbose message was, no one can serve two masters in this world. Render unto Cesar, and all that. A path like yours in the halls of power could never be my path in this world. It is soul annihilation for me. I need to go hug a tree just thinking about it.


    1. So sorry about the erase. I do it to. Sadly it's on the nice ones. No kidding about dark powers. Universe is made of DARK MATTER. "A path like yours in the halls of power could never be my path in this world. It is soul annihilation"

      It's a big test of patience & understanding & facing evil while holing my inner flicker of light. Still I wonder when dark energy it is at work deleting our best?

    2. I think I didn't read that right... OGF, you lost a long comment to the ether? I thought you said you erased it yourself for some reason. Not sure why posts are being lost.

  37. Dear Mark,

    I have recovered from my exhausting previous "typing." And, of course, the thinking behind the typing.

    Allow me to set aside my statements regarding sociopaths in places of power. I know what it is like to serve kings. They are smart, and it is wonderful. They radiate power and charm, you can feel it.

    When I was in my mid 20s I was out with a friend one evening at a popular, artsy, erudite watering hole that attracted all kinds. A man walked in with two women, hard looking women. He was medium stature, very swarthy, and unremarkable in looks. However, he radiated power like few people I had ever encountered. I could feel it across the room. Like Lee Raymond, I couldn't help but stare. I felt it like intoxication. While he was unremarkable in his looks, he was so elegant in everything, his style, his clothing, his manners.

    I eventually tore my gaze away from him and turned my attention back to my girlfriend, who was a pale shadow of a personality compared to the man nearby. He was like the sun, and she was a flash spark. After some time I made my way to the women's lounge. When I exited the man was standing at the door waiting for me. He introduced himself, he was the assistant administrator for all Saudi Arabian oil in the US. This was the 70s. That made him one of the most powerful Arabs in the US, and the world, pretty much. This was in Houston, Texas, too, the oil capital of the country. The corporate power hub of the oil industry.

    No wonder he was so beautiful. That kind of intelligence and power.

    He asked if he could take me to dinner the following evening. I told him I could not, as I was in a relationship with someone. He apologized profusely, which embarrassed me. I told him that it was entirely my fault, and I sincerely begged his pardon. I said I had been staring at him, but I couldn't help myself, because he was so very elegant. There was no other word I could use. I held my hand near him without touching him, because his power was palpable. We excused ourselves and returned to our respective tables.

    I could tell I surprised him. He continued to watch me for the rest of the evening, and I was more polite and didn't intrude anymore on his consciousness from my end. I've never forgotten that man's aura. They are intoxicating, those powerful, intelligent men.

    1. Outfoxed? No. A different power.

      When you request that we write to power, you give credence to the power in that specific area.

      I do not deny the power these individuals have at all. On the material level.

      Let me be clear, Mark, humans have the power to destroy, but not to heal. Life heals Itself, or it doesn't heal at all. When I write that these "problems" won't be "fixed" from a material level, like Guy, I am never suggesting that people do nothing. We can't get there from here. We are dying right now, all of us. No "human" consciousness can "fix" this, I don't believe. So, I am living my Truth up here in Alaska, and that consists of building a chicken coop, planting a veggie garden like never before, digging my wandering raspberry patch and trying to salvage the few strawberry plants I can find.

      These are the things that will keep my small patch of the world as healthy as I am able. By being as unproductive as I have been, I have been able to avoid funding the ongoing murder and warfare of this country for going on three years now! Am I proud, or what!!!!! Yahhhhhhhh!. It took me to the brink, and without grace and good people I wouldn't have made it, but it happened.

      Last year I was praying. I notice that when I am truly down, when I am on my face on the floor because I am truly powerless in my suffering, then I really can hear the One. Once I was in that situation, few people can ever understand the terror I felt over that particular issue at the time, and I had a thought. It wasn't my thought. It wasn't a voice. It was just a thought, and it said, "Give it to me."

      I believed that thought. I got up off the floor and I gave it to the One. I was not assured of an outcome that would be what I wanted. I was not promised anything. I was simply told what to do. In time, over the next many months, I watched miracle after miracle unfold. I encountered negative spiritual entities for the first time, and I gained greater understanding of the reality of very, very dark entities that are at play in this world.

      Last year I was in the same situation, one of extreme suffering, unable to endure dragging myself through that world anymore. It is a world where there are always two realities going on, the spoken and the unspoken. I cannot do that. I can't translate the language. It has always brutalized me. I finally told the One a couple of years ago that I just couldn't do it anymore. I can't go out there and deal with that insane world anymore. I asked for something I could do from my home.

      I had a thought in response to my most heartfelt desire. The One communicated, "I will keep you."

      We choose our master in this world. That's all we get to choose. We don't get to choose freedom.

      I know mo will argue this, but I am talking about surrender, not getting anything. That's how I see it from this perspective. I'm like red fox, and until it's my direct experience, I'm having the experience I'm having. I am . . . and there isn't any word beyond that . . .

      Blessings to all.

    2. Should I have written "oil capitol"? I never use that word.

    3. The dinner memory above & even deeper into: "I gave it to the One. I was not assured of an outcome that would be what I wanted. I was not promised anything. I was simply told what to do. In time, over the next many months, I watched miracle after miracle unfold. I encountered negative spiritual entities for the first time, and I gained greater understanding of the reality of very, very dark entities that are at play in this world."

      I'm going to write about this to you below. I'm not at all in DC during the week on a power trip. In fact I declined several times and still resist. Can't even stay on weekends because: " I am talking about surrender" YES YES YES, I'll somehow try to explain yet so clearly you already know.

  38. "I know mo will argue this"

    I would? beats me why you would think that...

  39. Because I'm not feeling consciously free? :O)

    1. so you are pleading temporary insanity? '-)

    2. At the moment, I think I'm pleading for arnica.

    3. first comes one, then comes the other?

      maybe plead for a giant pitsky wheel...

    4. You always understand. I fear I must find the puppers a younger, more active pack. I adore him, and I hate it that I'm so torn. I hate breaking his big, brave, independent heart. I have bruises and aches everywhere, from my shoulders to my ankles. I'm sad.

    5. can puppers be allowed off leash in fairly wide open area near you? if so, can the pupster be taught to retrieve? (or close to it? maybe in stages... see below)

      if all of the above, then one tennis ball (plus a few backups in the beginning) and on tennis racket, and you and puppers are set to burn some serious calories! (very few for you, and very many for he)

      this is a sure fire formula I have used to burn high energy dogs right down to the blissed out and totally exhausted ground. they absolutely love it.

      open area required, and the retrieving thing is the most crucial step. however! almost any dog can be taught this - and pupster has the brain, it sounds like - with a bit of treat-oriented behavior modification if necessary. I would really love it if you two could figure this out!

  40. OGF

    You're right with capital, as in capital city (capital in its meaning of "head")

    Capitol comes from Capitoline Hill, one of the seven hills of Rome and one of the first to be settled, apparently with a citadel for the rulers. You can see the link with your Capitol which was built at a time when the Romans were greatly admired by educated people of European decent as the epitome of "civilisation".

    Mussolini was proud of this "heritage" too and wanted to create a second Roman empire but only managed to "found" fascism. The thread goes on and on...

    1. Thank you, Sabine.

  41. A nice short new post on the bioregional animism blog after a long hiatus:

  42. I looked at the article. Hadn't read much of anything before. Been enjoying just making up animism as I go. Me-ism. Thanks for pointing to the traditions. There's always a lot to learn.

    1. Hi Artleads, Just saw the Graham Hancock video that you posted in the previous thread. Fascinating!

      Also I responded above to your comment.

  43. I just came across this report on automation prevalent in social network forums - Information Warfare: Automated Propaganda and Social Media Bots

    The punchline: That Moron Who Spews Garbage and Doesn’t Listen to Reason May Be a Bot

  44. Hi mo flow, I definitely keep thinking about the paranormal, metaphysical and other non-normal aspects of the Universe so I try and relate to what you are saying and I think I have a feel for it. Non-dualism in particular comes across as the most loving way for the Universe to exist, if that makes any sense. It's like an assurance that the Universe is not hierarchical even if man has built Civilization that way. After realizing how much inequality and injustice exists in this world, perhaps, it's just a hope that I cling to when I think of the Universe, overall, in more egalitarian terms.

    1. hi Satish -

      you know, I think the closest anyone can get is having a feel for it! our feeling system is totally where it is at for connecting to the Universe this way. the thing to really "get a feel for" is just how far things can go in this department - with intuition, sensitivity, listening, and just overall living "in tune." it's endlessly amazing to me. I don't remember where I read it just now, but one author who I respect said something like "Intellectual understanding is the booby prize of life. God (The Universe) communicates and connects almost entirely through feeling."

    2. the larger Universe is nothing like hierarchical human Civilization. I can't stress this enough. when you are living in the Reality where Love is everywhere - the simple, obvious essence of everything that sustains you, and all that connects you to everything else, on every level - then "egalitarian" does not even come close to describing this existence in the Universe.

    3. Hi mo and Satish,

      Your reply there mo, to Satish made me think of something from Masanobu Fukuoka's The One-Straw Revolution". He was a truly wise man who wrote this very profound and beautiful book (you probably know it):
      In a chapter called Drifting Clouds and the Illusion of Science (intellectual understanding)" he writes:

      The fact is that people who think a drop of water is simple or that a rock is fixed and inert, are happy, ignorant fools, and the scientists who know that the drop of water is a great universe and that the rock is an active world of elementary particles streaming about like rockets, are clever fools. Seen as complex [without intuition], the world becomes frighteningly abstract and distant.
      The scientists who rejoiced when rock was brought back from the moon have less grasp of the moon than children who sing out "How old are you Mr Moon?" Basho (the haiku poet) could apprehend the wonder of nature by watching the reflection of the full moon in the tranquillity of a pond."

      He's got it in one.
      Yes, mo, it's all about "getting a feel for...". You're so right! According to this lovely man, we're neither ignorant nor clever fools. We don't need prizes, booby or not...

    4. Hi mo flow, I guess I need to spend more time in this level of consciousness and less in the innermost level.

    5. the feeling connection to the Universe transcends any idea of levels. it can connect to you from anywhere, in any way, at any moment.

  45. Hi Mark,

    Life in Silicon Valley goes on as usual. There's not much concern in the corridors of Technology to pay heed to any of the colossal problems we face. Perhaps, as a product of this culture, I am a bit inured to the failure of the political process. Just before I left Google, I asked my boss if we could put together a one-page manifesto declaring that "Google employees have voted unanimously to declare that Climate Change is for real and we need to be doing something about it". I thought such a statement coming from a company that everyone loves and is familiar with would move the needle significantly. After all, people trust the analytical abilities of some of the world's smartest engineers, right? But the idea didn't pass muster. My boss candidly suggested I might want to approach one of the oil companies with my cause! I could have laughed out loud.

    The way I see it, the elite know what's going on. They think it can't be helped. They call it the "tragedy of the commons" and it's as if one person not harming the planet doesn't stop the next one from doing it so one might just as well go ahead and do it. It's just a game at this point. Carbon credits, etc. The capitalists have cut up what remains of the ecology into pieces and sold them off to each other. What do we expect when the head of "The Nature Conservancy" is a former banker? He spent 24 years at Goldman Sachs. He gave a talk at Google a couple of years ago after he wrote a book. The title of the book is: "Nature's Fortune". Valuation of "ecosystem services" is all the rage these days.

    If society wants to safely dismantle the plants, society will need to show the capitalists in charge that there's money to be made. That's the overriding incentive that makes the world go around these days. We don't even have the resources to cap the leak at Fukushima, I am not so hopeful things will turn around. Sorry for the downer comments all evening!

    1. Hi. I just came from NBL & exactly this comment comes up first. need to read everything as I'm so very sorry how I messed up on my reply to OGF when her comment first off the plane.

      Word for word I cheer the responses to you on NBL from B.Dev, COLIN & ...oh yikes I forget names...I with SABINE about meaning and essance rather than names. For 2 years in Costa Rica I was Marco Stine..(Austin sounds like stein in Sp.)

      Oh I think it was CLIVE, who also said some amazing things about your roots & tribe post. My exact thoughts with total respect so I won't repeat their reviews. I just spent careful time reading every word of you & others on NBL. Virtually no need for me to comment anymore when nearly every word overall sounds like my own thoughts. However, I sure will blog, blurt or scream if I think it's really important - or I finally have some unique aspect that has not been covered by all others.

      Paul Chefurka on "Roots" in consciousness is so important. okay better read everyone here. As always I'm enthused * *Ataraxia* perfect word from Paul describing my general circle of mind/emotion....sliced into pie bytes of many flickering thoughts and moods...but ATARAXIA now that's quiet a state of being.

  46. You know, we are not all the same. We really are not. "Enough people" aren't going to make anything different until "enough people" ARE different.

    To believe that those with the power to make these decisions, like decommissioning the nuclear power plants that are going to go all Fukushima on us in the near future, will do only if "enough people" want it is just one more illusion-lie. That's the current lie, and it's just a lie.

    People do what they want to do, and what they are able to do. If they aren't doing something they should be doing, you can be it's because they don't want to do it.

    1. That is, you can BET it's because they don't want to do it.

  47. I have read with interest the conversation about Eisenstein. I have never read him and dont intend to. I first saw mention of him in the book by Mark Boyle (UK) , the moneyless man. He mentioned Eisenstein and I read the book reviews and decided "nope". There is an interesting review of "ascent" on by Daniel Quinn which persuaded me not to read it.
    I didnt know about his comments on indigenous folk but it doesnt surprise me as it is a common theme amongst a certain type of newage writer. It began with with Blavatsky and Theosophy and the notion of root races and the total bastardisation of karma to justify empire and atrocities. You create your own reality so you must have decided to incarnate to suffer as not one of the chosen (westerners or easterner elites). Bollocks to both of those ideas. I find people like that rather disgusting to be honest; they are a plague in places like Glastonbury (where I have spent a bit of time). Know nothings who spout off about concepts they dont even know which culture originated them. They think that being "spiritual" and hand wringing about "the environment" somehow means that they are above everyone else, forgetting that their faux spirituality is built upon poisoned lands and genocide. They actually are not that intelligent, cloaking their ignorance in what appears to be profound but hollow words and concepts (bots). Anyone who thinks this culture can be redeemed (there are many like Eisenstein) is not sane even though they may appear to be at first glance. I know everyone here knows this, but visitors also read the comments and I needed a small rant :0)
    I always end up going back to the first writer who opened my eyes to this culture, the one who pared everything back to basics-John Zerzan. The premise being, no culture except for foraging band culture is sustainable or desirable.

    As an aside, I just got back from an evening walk to the edge of the marshes and met a divinity. Two deer, who approached to within ten feet of me whilst I stood stock still for 20 minutes. I was downwind of them and it appears their sight is terrible even though I gazed into their eyes. Not much comes close to this in my book. :)

    1. Red Fox,
      I agree with you on John Zerzan and his anarchist spirit. He cuts through the BS with a samurai sword. I was thinking of foraging cultures when I said that most of us should have never been born. But here we are - trying to do our best....

      Yes, your experience with those deer is divinity made visible, you lucky one!.
      The last deer experience similar to this, I had last September, blackberry picking. I young deer actually walked up to where I was picking, no more than 3 metres away and started nibbling, completely ignoring me. I must have been down wind too, but it was daylight - I just stood and watched the beautiful creature. What an amazing experience. Maybe they can discern a friendly presence.

    2. Hi red fox and Sabine,

      I can't find the review of "Ascent" by Quinn. Having read Quinn, I'd be interested in seeing what he thinks of Ascent. Do let me know if you come across it. A general critique of Eisenstein's work is also lacking on the web. I find his explaining away of the role of the elite especially confusing considering he wrote a whole tome on Economics. He talks about various ways that the monetary system could be transformed without addressing the issue of how the current system has been more or less handcrafted by the powerful to serve their needs. Who will transform the system? He writes the strangest stuff, as pointed out by Foster Gamble, the maker of Thrive (which I am no fan of either):

      "In his book, Charles goes so far as to excuse J.P. Morgan’s suppression of Nikola Tesla’s radiant energy tower by writing “Perhaps Morgan was even on some level cognizant that humanity was not ready for Tesla’s gift.” (Sacred Economics, p. 443)."

      So, Morgan, the altruist was keeping tabs on whether humanity was getting its due share of heavenly gifts on time!

      Gamble and Eisenstein went head to head for a bit -

      In most accounts of how the world works, or the problems we face and the solutions that are proposed, I find that the narrative barely touches upon the crucial role that the sociopathic elite has played in creating the deadly societal culture that we absorb into our pores from the day we're born. I was just listening to Robert Scribbler (after someone posted a link to his interview on KPFA Radio on NBL) and he says we should stop war and focus our efforts on mitigating the effects of climate change. War, of course, is hugely profitable and I see no reason to consider it on the same level as humanitarian efforts. It's not an either/or for the decision makers on where to expend resources. They have clear preferences and prerogatives. Michael Parenti had it right when he said most people view the workings of the world as a stochastic process, largely an outcome of innumerable, almost random interactions between millions of moving parts including humans. A friend of mine argued with me about how humans in the world are like gas molecules in a closed jar. Even though the molecules move about in random fashion, they still exert pressure on the walls of the container and that is how, in his view, modern human culture comes about, getting pulled one way or another almost randomly by 7 Billion people! He's a Physics major and I can see why he thinks Physics can explain the world in terms of such stochastic theories. I never thought worldly affairs were random. And now I don't think those molecules in the jar are given to moving about "randomly" either.

      I'm yet to read Zerzan but have heard enough of him to think he will be an easy and enlightening read!

  48. This is a long transcription of a talk that Peter Grey of Scarlet Imprint gave at Glastonbury. I really like how he melds radical analysis with witchcraft. this talk mainly focuses on the politics but is a very interesting read imo.

    1. Thanks. I read about a third way down, but hadn't the time for the rest. We are very powerful by nature, is how I see it, and we can do all kinds of (secret) stuff to lead rather than follow.

  49. This is the kind of mainstream news report that gets my blood heating up -

    Everything about the article is flippant. The use of the word "invades" in the title... these creatures are dead! They are washing up ashore dead due to human-induced changes in the ecosystems and MSM is sensationalizing it to get a few more page views. And the end of the article captures well how modern civilization is reacting to our predicament at large: "Daniel Stringer, who’s lived on Balboa Island for 47 years, says he’s never seen the little crabs but he knows what to do with them: barbecue them with butter."


    It's customary to paint western or American culture, past and present, with the same brush.

    This movie was made in 1953. Toward the end of the great musical movie tradition that may have started
    with Fred Astaire. I grew up on such movies. They were produced by the same country that wiped out a race and enslaved another, that has brought the biosphere to the brink of extinction. But when I watch Bob Fosse dance "From This Moment On" I am entranced. I can think of nothing more brilliant.

    I can't decide what this innocent wonder has to do with earlier genocide, or the contemporary Jim Crow, or the apocalyptic present. Something weird happened to America c. 1960. And it swelled within the national body like the aliens that invaded the human bodies in "Aliens." To me, this "musicals" tradition is a victim, not entirely unlike living species that are dying. To me, it isn't just "America." It's more complicated than that. And it also has to do with culture as a living thing.

    Anyway, my two cents. I get the sense that I won't measure up to the pure and correctly incensed sentiments in our blogging community, even perhaps in this blessed spot. I write this for two reasons: 1) to share what strikes me as the most beautiful thing in the world--Bob Fosse's performance (he's the shortest one wearing the yellow cap) to this great Cole Porter(?) tune, and someone else's superb music arrangement, and 2) dispelling any conception that I'm some sort of purist who can be relied upon to take a politically correct stance.

    If "America" could produce those movie musicals that I love and adore, I'm not entirely sure what it can't do in the future. (Of course, I believe that because I love and adore something, it is likely to have "worth" of sorts.)

  51. Hi red fox, thanks for the link to theriseandfallofthehumanempire blog. What an excellent analysis! This is where I was going too with a recent comment on NBL:

    "On the other hand, a second possible scenario might produce a small number of human survivors who arise from the rubble, cleansed at last of that tyrant gene, to build a new world and the first human civilization.

    The third and sadly most probable outcome is that within that tribe of human survivors there will lurk a small number psycho-parasites, hiding in plain sight, waiting for just the right moment to begin the cycle all over again."

    The seed of psychopathy is ever present. Those who know how to listen for it will keep it in check. But when it's time comes, we should get ready to bid farewell to what we have had for so long. Ultimately, it's all good because for the most part, humans are good at listening as we have done for some 2 Million years. But everything must end, or so it seems, and the seed will do its job. And when the seed sprouts and takes over, it's still good because most people stop listening to the pain and suffering it all entails.

    Perhaps we here, and on NBL, are an anomaly among the 7.3 Billion for seeking this or that, instead of cherishing what little there is still left. Actually we do some of that too, connecting with plants and animals and each other. Time to get out and get some fresh air... phew!

  52. RED FOX - I'm learning wonderful things thru your words, questions & concerns. Thank You!!!

    I just added a (reply) to your MARCH 21 share above with Artleads. seems weird to call adding a bit more sharing a reply. sorry I don't have the tech key to send you right back to the spot but it flows on your conversation leading down here to the lovely moment you had: "I just got back from an evening walk to the edge of the marshes and met a divinity. Two deer, who approached to within ten feet of me whilst I stood stock still for 20 minutes. I was downwind of them and it appears their sight is terrible even though I gazed into their eyes. Not much comes close to this in my book"

  53. OLD GROWTH FOREST - so many thanks. I was reading you for months before Satish encouraged me to interact. I'm sort of like your puppyman dog, bouncing with energy but following your lead. You covered so much above and I'm sad about the one that got lost as well.

    I talked about my 2 month PEACE PILGRIM walk in Australia 1993 in better detail on this site before. After I lost my tent in New Zealand, I dropped the backpack and simply did much like her. Happy, love energy, smiles, quiet....I walked very much in her manner, ultra simple life style, In a way there is nothing much to say except to that it sure flows beautifully when you or I walk the walk.

    Then I DIED.

    One death, when I Flatlined, is fulled documented by medical records. cameras. proof. I'll send files of everything but for the moment trust me I return to my body in stages of progress. I've come and gone in a number of ways. Having in full reality the peace pilgrim walk was one of the best along with 99 - 2002 in the rainforest. I lived in a tree for nearly a year. Not a cabin not a plug in sight.

    So what am I doing here now? Flying & writing again like I did in the Hollywood days when your copy of Peace Pilgrim saved my life during a massive deadly AIDS pandemic...The first time I had a big issue to solve. Do or Die? Course of Miracles...set me course on a tiny boat around the Pacific. A year of no internet, phone - in touch only with survival simplicity. Way off the commercial, political, consumer grid.

    I'm sorry but I can not explain in human language on a computer but I got a strong "message" from a source that does not have a human voice. An exact light work job to do. Like it or not, doors & keys & connections sometimes just flow. Something much more than i walks in my shoes...and I certainly don't know why "IT" not I has me on this path. It keeps me alive. IT developed the Antibodies that medical labs are pumping out of my blood. Clinically the scientist rarely ask "why" I'm only one of 30 people willing to donate...and even my rare undectetable blood is not enough for IT to require I give.

    Dr. Leslie Ford who is the chief deputy director general of the NIH. (look her up) connected me to Dan Utech The Chief White House adviser. In a way I am still on a peace journey, right now it is leading me monthly into the Oval Office. There might be a reason...but living inside a body that is on a journey is a mystery.

    My dear grandma Suy is Cherokee. This May my mom & I will go spend a week with her on the blue ridge. My mom's father was an Irish emigrant who Suy saved from injury & starvation when he tried to pioneer his way into the Smokey Mt woods. Suy will be 98 in May but fuck gvt records she might be 99. It's her spirit & amazing life story that matters so much more than dates. She had Thanksgiving with Al Gore in 97. Suy lived in France after my grandpa died. She's had visions that proved true. She is still my living guide.

    So why won't I stay dead. Why share any of this tonight. Maybe there is just so much we don't know. Unfolding. revealing. finding you too in a cyber old growth forest. Yep I really love my life but I'm not sure it's all mine or entirely belongs to me. I trust the journey, even though so much of reality is not peaceful. Rapids of turmoil, but I always walk through the valley in the shadow of death fearing very little. certainly not death of this physical shell. Maybe something wrong with increased radioactivity. That's the only signal I got that matters in the VERY very long term. I'll deal with it as peacefully as I can. It's all a part of evolution, transition & taking continued steps. Even the seas experience turbulance.

    1. hey Mark -

      you hinted above you would be posting less on NBL. that's very much the way I am going with NBL now. we all know what we need to do, but I really hope you stick around here on KuKu. (as I am going to). your posts - like this one above - are transformative for me. I can't put it into words, and I don't need to, but I really like knowing you exist on this Earth, I like hearing your story and your amazing world of experience, and I would sorely miss it if it stopped. please stick around. thank you!

    2. "So why won't I stay dead."

      and you have *no* idea how much I can relate to this.

      "Maybe there is just so much we don't know. Unfolding. revealing."


  54. I hear that people who flatline and return lose the far of death. I really got into your story. Thanks. Haven't seen your comment to me yet, but will keep looking.

  55. Dennis says:

    "You have to end the monetary system,that is the root cause."

    I'm not sure which comes first, the chicken or the egg. Nothing can happen within our deadly monetary system. But the world is not prepared for when it ends. And maybe preparing for it (if that were possible) would help it to collapse.

  56. I'm rethinking this. I read that Fukishima already represents slow-motion planetary meltdown, short of some miracle to stop it happening. I know nothing of such matters. Aside from that, however, I'm reconsidering the place in planning for nuclear shutdown. Maybe it doesn't come first, for, as David suggests, it's not possible to do it within our current monetary system. OTOH, as I suggested above, preparing for the end of the monetary system--quietly, from the bottom up, in small local groups, might well be the best way (if it can happen all over, and very soon) to end the monetary system that confines us to the apocalyptic scenarios we face. Just a thought.

    In other words, I think all the saber rattling and supposed threat of nuclear war is bluff. (And even a modest nuclear plant blow up, at this time of maximum system crisis, would fuck up the system good and proper.) More bread and circuses to distract the "left" from developing a coherent strategy of any sort. Maybe we should allow TPTB to figure this one out by themselves.

  57. ARTLEADS - Endless vast amount of RESPECT...R.E.S.P.E.C.T...I'm singing it to you. I went back up and saw my big reply with highlights of all your comments I admire did not post. yuck yuck what bad luck.

    Really you are doing way more than I (not that there should be any "i" or comparison anyway) I read and think about all the different ways you shift and adjust the problems. I'm sure impressed by the planning. I've never said it out loud here (okay once on NBL) but I've had times when I reference what your doing with the New Mexico county plan.

    My "problem to attempt solving" is rather single focus. We have Obama wanting to follow Merkel. And I have the whole invisible Mo Flow thing going on where I was just guided here to facilitate figuring out a change that is likely to happen. There is an easier element of literally being part of a tree that wants to grow away from Uranium. I'm just down here in the spirit of the roots of a seed that wants to grow in this new direction.

    I'm a mut-mut of a whole bunch of experiences, ethnic backgrounds, natural experience, Hollywood & D.C. being me and all I've survived gets oddly easy. Fukishima & Energy Progress & MASS CONCERN over nukes is already on my side. But for the first time I'm going to wear all my hats at once to make my biggest challenge flow. Hell, in 1984 I was 22 and terrified of I'm selling it. Talk about lemonade. I drew attention to piles of trash in Costa Rica and had a National park established. ARTLEADS you've got much more on you plate in the list of resolutions.

    My ultimate fan letter to you is that even if none of it works out in this earth time. I hope and pray and have a pile of scientific evidence from CERN that this great thinking - especially the way you present the material and talk about it with others...well if god was quietly reading, along with me listening...I'd dare to give voice it it saying: "This is the blueprint for a better reality." Such awareness of all the mistakes here and willingness to try to fix them.

    Gift from the universe - Mo Flow already knows - but for those who need proof Cern is about to unveil multi dimensions. Very big machine playing with the very very small () oh but those sci-guys gotta get a real shot of big momma natures mult talents to prove the universe is going as far in as Hubble shows us far out.

    ARTLEADS - as if the universe wasn't big enough, I've got a Sabine "feeling" that as close as the next galaxy, when the time comes, everything I admire you is ultimately welcome-wanted-already been zipped over there. Sadly working it all out here might not work out. Might even turn out highly radioactive. But the ultimate DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY has a system backup. Your made of energy that will never be lost nor was created. Can't break the Law of Energy. Energy can only be transformed.

    SERIOUSLY, handshake, back to what you & i are doing in physical human terms. Including the free spirit to take "it" on and do it. I get it and as much as I read I honestly never find a flaw. Right track. right on. I'll be more specific at future points...but man you sure had my back without my good is that. Thanks again.

  58. Not sure what's going on with all the lost comments. I am yet to experience a glitch here. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I am always logged into the Google account. Please, please copy your text and keep it somewhere (in the clipboard or perhaps in a notepad file) until it posts. It should post right away because there's no moderation. Who else has been losing comments other than OGF and Mark?

    1. Somewhat my fault cause a part of me is "willfully ignorant" as Artleads also confessed. What karma case it was in selecting his quotes that I forget how to do the return to date thing.

      I work from ph, home, Dept & laptop on deck weekends so it gets a bit much to memorize. SATISH you are so lucky to have the natural talent for programs. Hope you got my personal e-mail response about crystal city. I think we are branching out of the Alien wrecking tree here on KUKU. This tribe mate is ready for you to plant a new story... or transfer your Roots essay from NBL. Maybe we could even start with a guest article by OGF if she is willing. Sabine? RED FOX? MO places for the concepts to FLOW. ART LEADS us next time with more room for us all to run?

    2. I've only lost one comment (really short that I retyped) when I had only hit preview instead of publish, and then just thinking it was there I went on to something else.

      after clicking publish - if the comment is posted, the page should always reload right at your new comment. that's the quick visual way of knowing it posted. and with anything even slightly longish - select all, copy just to make sure...

    3. Satish, my loss was entirely my own fault. No glitches in the system did it.

  59. Satish,
    The Quinn review; must go, running late...

    1. Thanks, red fox!

      Here's the full text of this book review on, for posterity:

      1.0 out of 5 stars Eisenstein and Quinn, August 11, 2012
      By Daniel Quinn
      This review is from: The Ascent of Humanity (Paperback)
      The "star-number" system of valuation is particularly unsuited to this review. It reflects not an absence of value but only a vast discrepancy between two minds that have dealt deeply with the human past and the human future.

      I'm afraid Eisenstein's vision of the world and of our place in it is fundamentally at odds with my own, expressed in ISHMAEL, THE STORY OF B, BEYOND CIVILIZATION and other books. I see the story as some two or three million years of humanity living at peace with the community of life through hundreds of thousands of generations, suddenly interrupted some ten thousand years ago by the appearance of a single culture that perceived the world as a human possession to be conquered and ruled, that perceived itself to be entitled to decide what species live and die here, and that perceived itself as having the one right way for people to live, a way that all humanity must be forced to adopt.

      Eisenstein writes: "Our separation from nature" (meaning "humanity's," even though it was not humanity's separation but only our culture's), "our war against nature" (again a war waged only by the people of our culture, not by the rest of humanity), "our ambition to transcend nature forever is actually in accord with nature's purposes, an evolutionary step not just of the human species, but of the planet as a whole." In other words "OUR ambition," which has been to destroy species that compete with us for food, to systematically destroy the food of other species so as to make room for our own, and to enslave or destroy all the thousands of aboriginal peoples who stood in the way of our world conquest, is "in accord with nature's purposes"-while the ambition of Homo habilis, Homo erectus, and Homo sapiens (apart from the members of our culture) which was simply to LIVE, generation after generation, at peace with the living community around us, was presumably NOT "in accord with nature's purposes."

      He writes: "We humans, and even the planet herself, are undergoing a birthing--to what state we can only speculate." No need to speculate. Biologists worldwide acknowledge that we are in the midst of a Sixth Extinction-an extinction as devastating as the Fifth, which emptied the world of dinosaurs and millions of other species. Owing entirely to our impact on the planet, it's estimated that 150 species are becoming extinct every day, a number steadily growing and steadily undermining the living systems upon which we depend for our lives. Unless we end and reverse "our war against nature" in the very near future-in decades, not centuries-the state we're "birthing" is the state of extinction of our own species.

      I could go on, but this is enough to show that Eisenstein and I inhabit two entirely contradictory intellectual universes.

    2. My take: I think Eisenstein rubbed Quinn the wrong way in his book when he said in Chapter 2 of Ascent: The Origins of Separation -

      "Separation from Nature, and the technological program to control the world, did not originate with agriculture, despite the eloquent arguments of Daniel Quinn and others who associate the expulsion from the Garden of Eden into the world of toil with the transition from a hunter-gatherer to an agricultural mode of existence. Agriculture, rather, marked an epochal acceleration of a pre-established trend, an inevitable expression of a long-gathering latency."

      I stand with Quinn largely. There is a weak doubt in my mind that Eisenstein might be on to something that's not related to the physical world Quinn inhabits, but a world of Spirit and Being which he then goes on to cast into the framework of "evolution". As in, the Earth and our species are evolving by going through the destructive times we're going through. May be so. But from what I can tell, humans have been devolving, possessed by stories that aren't working out as intended.

      I can't as yet feel a connection with anything but my immediate world and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I'm open to the possibility that what we perceive through our senses does not provide the complete story but until such a world comes into clear view, theories of evolution like Eisenstein's will remain distant.

    3. I've thought that, were an evolutionary breakthrough were to occur, HS wouldn't revert to aboriginal states--these were far more sophisticated as to nature's ways (whatever those are) than post civilized people, who know nothing of that. What I think is different is that HS is "scientifically" aware of the planet as a sphere in space, a sphere that has been artificially subdivided but that should be considered as a whole, environmentally and socially. So, it would be a return to a traditional HG lifestyle with an IC overlay?

    4. I got the following from the Dark Mountain Manifesto somebody posted.

      "Uncivilisation, which knows its flaws because it has participated in them; which sees unflinchingly and bites down hard as it records..."

      Somewhat relates to what I was trying to say above.

      "We tried ruling the world; we tried acting as God’s steward, then we tried ushering in the human revolution, the age of reason and isolation. We failed in all of it, and our failure destroyed more than we were even aware of. The time for civilisation is past. Uncivilisation, which knows its flaws because it has participated in them; which sees unflinchingly and bites down hard as it records — this is the project we must embark on now. This is the challenge for writing — for art — to meet. This is what we are here for."


      I thought of you at times during tonight's meeting. It wasn't quite like following that truck near LA when I was desperately lost. Tonight I had to modify my behavior, but it was relatively easy to do. I managed to shut up and show patience. Chiming in only when I saw the bigger picture inherent in the process, and how it fit in with what was already here (in the community) and desirable here and could likely gain wider support. So it wasn't all so much about ME, as it might have been before. It was a bit like checking in and listening to you as well. :-) I'm quite certain you intended and were "present" there to help me, so once again, my humble thanks.

  60. Just came across this: The Dark Mountain Manifesto

    I believe everyone here will relate to what is said in it. And the writing is great too!

  61. Satish and all of you,

    I think what we're doing here is what people educated in our dominant culture do: analyse texts, words, other people and their expert knowledge where in fact we all know nothing about Nature, how everything truly cooperates in a myriad of relationships that are still unknown to us, however hard our science and technology tries.
    We can't help separating what we're interested in, what "concerns" us, what "inspires" us - and we lose sight. The old cliché: The more we know the less we know (intellectually) is spot on in my experience. We are told that life is a journey, a quest, but it's not really. What we're doing is reinventing, systems, rituals that might get us back to the source, which, of course is there all the time. Nature doesn't change, not even in its diminished state, the way we experience it now. Red Fox's encounter with the deer is a good example.
    I can't imagine that we'll ever be able to reinvent the "mind-set" (really the wrong word) of our hunter/gatherer ancestors, the ones John Zerzan talks about. So in the end, we are "condemned" to connect with the source in our own way, alone. That can be a frightening thought and is precisely the reason why people need prophets (like Eisenstein or indeed anybody else who seems to have the answer). They need people that "analyse", find the "problem" and ideally offer a way out. So that you can DO something!
    I know I do it, and even when I know I'm totally aware that this is wrong. Our Western philosophies can't deal with this paradox at all, and this is what has created all of us moderns - whenever this started....
    We know, see, have glimpses which are recorded, after a fashion, in Eastern philosophies, that's why they're so attractive to Westerners who are "missing" something. But it's not about finding what you are missing in any kind of text, it's about accepting that we know nothing in an intellectually sense, because intellect "grasps". And anything in Nature (I include the whole universe there) that's "grasped" becomes illusive, a shadow.
    So we gather information in order to understand. We'll never "understand".

    I imagine that our ancient ancestors had it right. They just saw the mystery and learned intuitively from it, the continual unfolding of it in their surroundings. I believe that this was normal to them, as it is to my cat who - I'm utterly sure - can "see" more than humans can, but it's "normal" to her, she doesn't make a fuss about it. She has to accept it, as intellectual analysis is impossible for her. Everybody who lives with animal companions and is aware, will know this. So what do we do? Do what nature does and live in relationships with her now, not analysing too much. I know we can't completely stop it. How else could we communicate here. And I've just analysed all this......there' you go.

    I often read the Dark Mountain blog. They attract writers, poets and other artists, and have published/atepublishing a series for books, one a year, with beautifully written, essays, short stories, poems, photos of artistic creation. Paul Kingsnorth, one of the founders of the blog and this "movement", is a lovely gentle guy. I've met him once. I get mostly joy from reading Dark Mountain essays, and I can relate to the metaphor of the dark mountain.

    1. Hi Sabine,

      It's easy to over-analyze. Analysis is based on information and information is hard to come by, even in the age of Google. We don't have access to vast swaths of truly important and time-critical information. Even in the worldly sense (bureaucracies, etc.) but definitely in the larger sense of how the human being is limited in its perceptions of "reality". We live in an "epistemological clusterfuck"! Never sure of the signals we receive. Our sources of information compromised, our ways of knowing even more compromised.

      For the most part, we're all observers and witnesses, like you said previously. And being an engineer, I have a tendency to connect the pieces of information that I come across into a cohesive story. My whole worldview fell apart a few years ago when I realized a number of things I had been lead to believe were inaccurate, incomplete or in downright opposition to my observations. I'm still in the process of constructing a new worldview, a new story that explains my observations. I am wary of being too attached to this new story. After all, that is the only lesson I can draw from these past few years: if my story fell apart once, how can I be so sure of this new story? What's to prevent my new story from falling apart in the future? Why get so attached to it?

      I don't even use the word "reality" much these days. Everything is just a story. Including the one about us being "human". I realize, for most of us, it's not as dramatic, the way we learn about the world around us. Change in story usually happens more slowly. So there's no pressing need to build a new story normally. Most people I know are content with a story that is painted in broad brush strokes. For some reason, and I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, I need a bit more resolution. A slightly smaller brush, a few more colors, maybe a few crayons too. Just a few more pixels, so when I blow it up on my big screen, I can see a few more details. They say fact is stranger than fiction. I definitely find it so. There's much mystery to behold in all this.

      And then I see a small bug on my food and my attention drifts. I begin to wonder. How fascinating that this bug and I both like the same kind of food! And I know the bug is my brother being. I gently pick it up and blow it into the breeze. And then my attention drifts to the food on my plate. As I chew on it, I wonder about the processes, people, really, all the spirits that played a role in bringing that food to my plate. And I marvel at the gigantic infrastructure that we've built to enable it. And I can't help but feel God-like because the food tastes so good. For a second. Then I am conscious of the suffering endured by many along the way, as they did what they were forced to do in some cases. The young merchant mariner on the container ship that brought me the lentils from India. How he had to leave his family in the village behind so he can go out and make money and send it back. How he had to leave because a multinational company colluded with the government to kick his family off their land. How I used to write software to help that multinational company more profitable. And how the food on my plate comes from the gross looting that goes on elsewhere in the world. The bug is back. It likes the lentils so much.

      Connecting the dots has been an obsession. I stand witness to a lot more than I used to.

    2. hi Satish -

      this is great. you have some kind of amazing gift with both your perception and your ability to share it. I think that this "connecting the dots" obsession is actually serving you extremely well. it is something I was born with as well, and my own connections led me to all kinds of places, and then to here. it is a magical, miraculous process, and one that I believe in 100%. and it is a mystery that has no end...

  62. Yes, I used to visit Dark Mountain but now just tend to read anything that Paul has to say on his own blog.

    Re: nature. To us it exists; to our prehistoric ancestors and to the few remaining uncontacted bands there is no such thing as nature. There is just Life until there isnt. Nature is indicative of separation. No separation=no nature.

    I think that all genuine, personal spiritual quests are a longing for reconnection with what we are separated from.
    The political religions are designed to increase the separation ( as are modern day spiritualities) until eventually all remembrance of a unified Life, hence non-nature will be forgotten/eradicated. This can never happen totally because all children when born and in the early years are connected and non separate from Life.
    Just my take :)

    1. Dear red fox,

      You are so correct; there is no "nature." There are Beings. There is Life; I am.

      Everything else is transient, changing, unknowable.

  63. Satish - hope to tell you how you inspired me to transform a swimming pool race into a creative kids group game. All about being unique sea creatures rather than compete.

    1. Mark,
      That's really lovely! I wish that I could have been one of the children being part of that. Children always remember the "outstanding". You never know, with this idea of yours, you might have sown some good fertile seeds...What did the parents say?

      Going back to Red Fox's "children are connected...", this ties in beautifully. We do need each other here, and Satish is a true inspiration.

    2. Coconut Grove marina pool at sunset. Sunday. 3 rambunctious black boys were lap racing me and nearly drown 2 Guatemalan sisters and their frail red head girlfriend.

      INSPIRED entirely by SATISH in deep observation of the school yard race around the tree I quickly stopped the race after the mom of the red head girl & black father shouted for us all to calm down.

      Okay lets hop around like frogs in a pond. lets be a group of funny frogs. We started singing "The water is getting warmer hop out before we boil." So they scampered out and jumped back in over and over with glee. Then we all started a mutation game. Seeing how unique we could be. The dad got in with his boys and took over cause sadly I had to get dry. Time to fly.

      Hope the parents got the idea that playing hybrid flamingo leg frogs. Mermaid frog. Octopus frog was more fun than this old paradigm of beat & compete. Bless wherever their little souls go when & if things do come to a boil on this planet. I admit I knew exactly the message I was broacasting with that nursery song. Hope it was a peaceful way to sing be prepared, something fishy might happen to the toys-r-us lifestyle landslide. But WTF I'm the electric free ranger Marco Stine I once was. Just like Guy McPherson or Cassandra of ancient Greece. Please don't shoot the messenger.

      I'm a sea fan of all the whales Alan 'Sea Shepard' has protected. He went from being a fisherman to Greenpeace for awhile, getting right in the harpoon line of fire. Talk about fear no evil....oh but I do.

    3. Mark, thank you for keeping my story in mind. And putting a dent in the cult of competition for a while.

  64. okay looks like posts work best from here at work. Supercomputers & all. Might baffle the NSA with bullcrap today. Late last night in my friends Georgetown house I was replying something a bit too far out to MO FLOW and bam the house computer froze. Lights flickered. then static thru the speakers I've never before heard. Sorta like chirping. Anyway thanks MO FLOW energy for the shut down sending me to bed.

    1. no prob. sometimes sleep is best. serious unreal torque time.

  65. Red Fox,

    You're absolutely right! In reality, there's no such thing as nature as a separate "environment". I fell that you, and me too, sense it very powerfully sometimes. What I was trying to say that the way we modern humans have to communicate - especially when we read and write - is one of the signs of separation. But here we are, having to use Indo-Germanic languages. I don't know any others, and they are the languages of our industrial civilisation and the "enlightenment" before that going back and back... Somehow, we can't avoid them. Even the word Life has lost its profound capital "L" meaning, having been misused by different "interest groups" for so long now. It's become meaningless, like so many billions and trillions that somebody mentioned her (I forget who). Just think of the stupid saying "Get a life". A good example of demeaning and misunderstanding a word, I think.
    Maybe this is why the quest to understand, to recreate and re-invent, trying to get to the source is so difficult (an I won't say "to achieve" because that would be a misunderstanding too). Every time we move towards the Source of Life, we keep moving and usually circle out again. Nobody really "achieves" anything because it's not an achievement to see and understand truly. Something our ancestors just did (even though "do" is totally wrong again). See what I mean about the words we use?

    And I agree with you about children because my reconnection points, experiences, all go back to my childhood. And of course animals and plants and the so-called non-living.... I'm hearing you! I'm just not too good at intellectualising, it feels wrong.

    I think we use similar vision and imagination to connect ourselves, at least It seems like that to me.

  66. Sabine said "Once you find a connection, there's a lot you can do. It's like magic" 1-23 "I spend time recovering knowledge about wild plants."

    Here in this wilderness of cyber electrons we grow in a new way. We are losing the ancient. "The Great Forgetting" yet this is part of the current evolution wave. Pre-historic trilobites also transmitted communications. grew eyes & antenna. Had to analise in their own ways how to adapt.

    I'm doing these former quotes from each of you from notes in my pocket and memory so please forgive them not being cut & paste correct. But these are quick highlights from carefully reading everything.

    OGF 1-23 "It was a shock to go to kindergarten and be met with dismissal as an 'Indian' because I was light."

    Sabine 1-24 "I'm not so much concerned with our species going extinct but more with us making life as we know it extinct."

    OGF thanks for the Alaska invite to all last night. I'm getting a copy of 'Indian Summer' on hold at coconut grove library when I fly south Friday . Bethel. YUPIK country. "I fear that describing it, however, can never quite do it. It has been mind shredding. A single experience WITH AN INFINITE number of FORMS." this OGF expression posted back in January must not be lost. The way she describes her ancestors, or Exxon office, brings past sights back to life in such reality. detail. feeling....I was not kidding months ago after reading about your years with George. Your writing is a bestselling novel to me. I'm the one who is humbly amazed to be here, white house or straw hut, none of us is the same but here we reside.

    CREE PROPHECY: "Not until the last tree, the last fish, the last flower is gone will they realize they can't eat money."

    SATISH - at the beginning of this year "I intuit that intuition is scary for modern man." Of all your huge volume of insight only you can give us your personal memories inside Google. Watching the school yard. Life through you eyes makes such an impression in my mind. Of course all levels of your awareness flow into me as you said: "People remaking the world was never a good idea to split human experience into seperate fields."

    OGF - "Maybe, God is the I in all perspectives, in every now..." In everything. May I add that if God remains fragmented, looking through all living eyes, fractalized down inside everything it gets so distilled that it becomes a distant ghost of the once unified. As often happens to planets all over the galaxy, life often gets reduced to a radiation background. A final wave radiating across space. Like a spirit trace signal lasting longer than all the multi-cellular life it created. evolved. entropy decayed. Energy that is never destroyed but also a lesson in taking the atomic split too far. As both Satish & OGF exchanged at the start of Going KuKu: "Newton was only an observer of the laws of gravity." A.I or otherwise we are all observers, actors & reactors to universal laws. I think, life is collectively thinking about itself. The memory of what it has done here and on planets before. Nothing is set in stone because stones are made of atoms. "I feel like doing something radically different at this point rather than radiate away." Not that it matters to you or me. It will be what it most wants to see.

    "Pronouns tend to make us think of ego. In reality these things can not be explained in language the way we use it." said Sabine.

    SATISH _ SATISH _SATISH....thanks for the space. May we please have more. Please post your whole NBL "Roots" essay. Roots & space for all these comments to flow. I just wanted to do a flash back to KuKu comments in January now we spring forward. NEZ PERCE NIIMIIPUU good energy hugs to one & all.

    1. Hi Mark, I was thinking the same... will post the "roots" essay here.

      You have some phenomenal memory, BTW. Not unlike those prodigies who remember everything ever said by everyone.

  67. Mark,

    Your post brought tears to my eyes. And that lifted some of my poor-sleep blahs. Thank you, my dear sir. I have one of those county meetings tonight. I will imagine your spirit there with me.

    You are your best guide. I see no way for you to fail.

  68. Wow. Really, wow. This conversation is interesting, and growing more so, for me. I feel like a true group minds and hearts are able to meet here. I know mo flow is my friend. He brings me so much joy with our conversations. mo always understands so much.

    I figure everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing. That is not only Byron Katie, that is also traditional Native American. The people who are here are the ones who are supposed to be here. The people and the other beings that are here also arrive when they "should." This is not a judgment, it is acceptance of what is.

    My traditional elder, Rita, stresses this spiritual principle a great deal ~ acceptance. My traditional grandmother did, too. She lived it. My aunt married a wealthy man when she was twenty-eight. They went to Europe pretty much every summer. One year she went to say goodbye to our Cherokee grandmother, and Granny told my aunt that Granny would not be alive when my aunt returned from her summer vacation.

    Granny, Ellen Cleopatra Brown Bratcher, was an insulin dependent diabetic, but still doing okay at 87. She was getting up there, however, and her daughters who cared for her decided to move her next door to one of them, so they could be there all the time. Granny never argued once with them.

    When Granny announced that she wouldn't be alive when my aunt returned, my aunt asked her why she would say that. My aunt was always asking Granny why she said the things she said. It was actually quite hilarious, my aunt's deep, deep love for her Native American grandmother, and her extreme lack of understanding of the Indian in the woman, herself. If there was anyone in my family born to succeed in the mainstream culture, it was my aunt, and she did. She totally got that. But she also worshiped her traditional grandmother.

    Granny's typical traditional response, "Honey, you can't uproot an old tree."

    That was how she expressed herself all the time. But she was also just psychic as all get out. She knew things all the time. It just came to her. She was a tremendously gifted mystic. She knew things but had no way of expressing her understandings, and she would say things like, "Honey, it just makes sense." Always that "Honey" or sweetheart, or sunshine or some endearment because she was also so very loving.

    I spent a great deal of time being cared for her when I was five and younger. I remember long days of silence between us, long days of taking care of things and enjoying each other, the garden, the fried chicken, the fresh eggs, and warm biscuits with homemade jelly, especially pomegranate.

    For me, it is only a small shift to imagine the two of us living a couple hundred years ago, tending our beans and pumpkins. Applied science.

    1. so much the same ogf! so very much...

    2. Honey, THANK YOU...Cherokee too. LOVE reading you xxx

    3. You are too cute, with your "Honey, Thank you." Well, I hope you don't mind me sharing more, then. I think of you often when we walk along, Mark, and the length of the walks is growing daily.

  69. Artleads,
    I know you've been talking about money/debt recently on the NBL blog and wondered if you had come across these?

    and the free book by Mark Boyle:

    1. Thanks Red Fox. I've been reaching for something like this. Will get back to you soon.

      Faqr Fakhri

      "Poverty is my Pride."

      --Muhammad ibn ‘Abdullāh

      "My sermons are criticized by certain audiences.

      They say that my sermons are hollow, not holy.

      I agree with them because I myself am not holy.

      The Buddha's teaching guides people

      to the place where there is nothing special...

      People often misunderstand faith

      as kind of ecstasy of intoxication...

      True faith is sobering up from such intoxication."

      --Kodo Sawaki ("Homeless Kodo")

    2. Thanks! This really is a thrilling prospect, to read Mark Boyle. I'm a very slow reader, and getting through the book will take time. Maybe I should skim, and get back to it over time.

  70. thinking about my discussion above with red fox regarding Light Beings, and everything else that has been discussed in this thread along these lines of "what we really are" - I came across this brilliant comment from Nanci Danison, as she awakens to the larger Reality of the Universe during her NDE, that describes exactly where I am at, and where I have been at for almost 30 years now:

    Armed with this new understanding , I found it incredible that I could ever have believed myself to be human. I felt like an ex-cult member who had been brainwashed and seduced by the human cult only to learn once I was deprogrammed that it was all a lie. While living in Nanci, I believed whole-heartedly in everything I saw and heard. Human life was my reality— the only one I thought I would ever know. Once I knew the truth about eternal reality, however , I could not imagine ever again being fooled into believing I am human.

    ~ Danison, Nanci L. Backwards Guidebook

    I was awakened from the cult in the most massive way conceivable many years ago. my conscious choice back then was to continue my life as human, but I was completely liberated from any further brainwashing. and yes, that is what it is - finally, the most massive brainwash possible. the most incredibly convincing conspiracy ever conceived. that's what this whole experience is designed to be.

    I am no longer a member of the human cult, just a very good pretender, for the sake of having a "human" appearing life.

    better than even calling myself a Light Being, without any of the New Age connotations there, I am an Energy Being. currently I live in human form, but this form is a small fraction of my total existence even right now. I know this is actually the same with everybody, but it is simply forgotten. and that's fine. for now. :)

    just my honest take for clarifying an important part of my attitude and approach with all of our amazing discussions here.

    1. Hi mo flow, that's much more clear now. I get it. I have felt that the notion of being human is a "really really strong belief." If we enumerate the different kinds of beliefs we partake in, they might include the likes of "I'm civilized and modern", "I'm educated", "I'm a liberal", etc. And out on the far extreme lies the ultimate belief, "I'm human"

      I have dismantled most of those other belief structures that were given to me by modern culture. I know better what "civilized", "modern", "educated", "liberal", etc. mean and I no longer subscribe to those labels. The "human" label is in the works :) I know at some level it's just a very strong belief that lifts its shadow only occasionally and allows for only short glimpses.

      Now, that you put it this way, in the words of Nanci, all your previous writing on this topic might be worth a second read,

    2. Mo,

      "I'm no longer a member of the human cult."

      Yes! you've taken the words right out of my mouth. I also still pretend for the sake of having a "human" appearing life.

      But like OGF,I still have notions about how lovely it would have been to live among humans who couldn't conceive themselves as separate beings in the way we do. That's where my imagination, my dreams often take me.

      As Satish says, you do get short glimpses and, in my experience, with practice even longer ones. Experiencing like that really does take you to a different dimension. When that happens to me, it's a very powerful physical feeling too, a feeling that keeps me bound to life here so that my little "self" feels totally integrated. That's the effect that "life other than human" has on me when I'm immersed in it.

      I still like to call it nature Red Fox. In German Nature is feminine, with overtones of the Mother. Maybe that's why the word still resonates with me. In German, it doesn't seem to separate so much, in the sense of making nature into the surroundings, the environment that can be exploited. The word seems still fresh, it hasn't lost all of it's power yet, it's still enveloping. Therefore, it connects me to my "unseparated" life as a small child when I didn't speak any other language. It's obviously a very personal connection to this word. I'm just musing.... What do you think?

    3. Oh dear, oh dear!

      Read "it hasn't lost...ITS power yet".

      Having gone on about pronouns, I should know how to use them, spell them. But the mind is not always reliable... at least mine.

    4. Sabine -

      yes, that is where my imagination and my dreams take me, too! to a place where we are living beyond separation, beyond all labels, as we truly are. this isn't just a dream. it is possible. it is already unfolding, right here. and wherever it goes, it will never end.

      Satish - yes, that is it. just a very strong belief.

  71. I am an Energy Being. that's what this whole experience is designed to be. a very good CREATOR. a small fraction of my total existence and that's fine. for now...your words above or a mind-meld echo? hybrid, home grown, never for a "second" alone.

    Mo you know we will never really go away. Where would we go? EVERYWHERE? in here() way out there and back again.

    the larger Reality of the Universe during her NDE, that describes exactly where I am at, and where I have been at for almost 30 years now: let's do the time warp again. Thank you for being a friend. Your a pal and a confident.

    Trillions and trillions of stars can fit into an atom in actual endless infinity. Infinity has it all times zillions x zillions more. Nothing to it. plenty more room for everything to co-exist. Truly. I insist.

    Shall we know I'm not really here. Now PLEASE, please do not fear. You know exactly where i am. Who's words are but your words & all the universes you scan.

    Happiness lies in our own hands. It took us much too long to understand, how it could be. Till you share your secret with's got a secret.

    Something new is about to be born. Truth or dare. Who's on first?

    1. Marco, you rascal. you lovely, mind-melding everywhere wonderful being! :) my secret friend. no fear in here or out there. you are not really here. you are in my heart, like a zillion sparkling stars. mmmmmm.... baby's got it goin on!

      dare. who's on first?

  72. I have to get Danison's book, mo. You have me very intrigued now.

    I have been reading Newton. I see that I didn't get far the first time, and now I remember why. I will persevere on your recommendation, as I've had the experience of not really relating to some books right away, but later finding a lot of value in them. One example is Ken Keyes' "Handbook to Higher Consciousness." There is something about Newton's interviews that are 'off' for me, and I can't quite articulate it. It has to do with my experiences with sprit, and just the approach.

    For example, the aunt I mention in the other post, and mention often, she was my mother's only sibling. We were very close throughout our lives, but like all relationships, ours ebbed and flowed, waxed and waned. She passed on ~ and I mean that literally ~ when she was sixty-seven. Typically, about a year after she transitioned, I had a visitation-dream with her. Like many of these visitation dreams go, I told her that I thought she had died. I'm being very careful with my words here, and please do not read more or less than is written into them. She said to me, "I did, but I needed to see you again. At that time I then asked her, "But, Aunt E, why are we so young?"

    In the dream I was about twenty, and she was about thirty-three. She said to me, "Because I wanted us to experience this [this meeting now] like/the same way our relationship was when it was its best." We were very close and had a lot of happiness together when we were those ages. We were much more like sisters than an aunt and a niece. She created/accessed/held a truth about the relationship and created that image for me on an astral level. For myself, I was very aware that she had died at the age of sixty-seven, and I was in my fifties in the present reality.

    Newton seems to struggle with how things "work," it seems to me. And I struggle with that. I and Thou is not a mechanism, it's not a 'why.' It is an It is. We are the Hanged Man in the Tarot. That is how consciousness works, a seemingly unchanging point of "I" in a kaleidoscope-changing reality.

    It is almost as difficult for me to imagine a non-human consciousness for as my "self" as it is difficult to imagine colors that don't exist "here." Not quite, however.

    The first willows have bloomed here in the north, and I saw two eagles the other day. A few stay all winter, but a majority congregate farther south for the winter. The greatest number of raptors begin migrating back into our region right around the equinox. It was very exciting to see eagles again; I haven't seen but one or two at a distance for a long time for me, about a year. Many years ago, before my neighborhood was so built up, there were over a dozen bald eagles that were moving right through the trees here, and I saw several in trees immediately near me or within a dozen yards.

    The bears will start waking up soon.

    1. We are the Hanged Man here. It represents consciousness alive and yet stuck on the material plane. But that's just a place in our minds. Somewhere there is nothing but God and God's beloved, I and Thou, and there is nothing but a relationship. Stepping in and stepping out. I'm sounding like mo . . .

    2. hi ogf -

      this way you experienced your communication with your aunt actually sounds exactly like various things that Newton and his interviewees describe.

      one note - you really need to ready Destiny of Souls too, if you can! he really completes the picture with many things in Destiny that are just so important.

      but yes, the way spirits will show themselves with each other in certain ways (like with age) for very conscious and specific reasons is just the kind of thing that Newton, and his interviewees, have right on target.

      another thing to keep in mind is the incredible diversity of souls and experiences that he is trying to cover.

      there is just so much variety here in our "larger beings" - that is putting it so mildly!! Newton took a *long* time to gather all of this information, and make some coherent sense of it, and this was in large part because there is just so much going on. he mentions that he has had to piece more of the whole picture together, very slowly over time. no one client of his ever had all the pieces, or all parts of the experience at hand, in recall, and the pieces that each one did have were all from that specific being's POV.

      nevertheless, there is tons of commonality across experience. sometimes his clients, when they are in the state of spirit recall, are shocked to learn that Newton knows things about the spirit world that they are assuming are known only to other beings in that state. he knows them, of course, from earlier experience with other clients. and the way he is, many times, corrected by souls in his own concepts about things that he thinks he has learned or understood, but does not in fact have complete understanding of, is very clear.

      "Somewhere there is nothing but God and God's beloved, I and Thou, and there is nothing but a relationship. Stepping in and stepping out."

      and YES! this is all there is, all the time. we have the beautiful, amazing freedom to experience this in an infinite number of ways, as we are God experiencing ITself, and having the most daring adventure. we are always held directly in the heart of the One, as its only Beloved.

      Pure Energy!

    3. "Newton seems to struggle with how things "work," it seems to me. And I struggle with that. I and Thou is not a mechanism, it's not a 'why.' It is an It is. We are the Hanged Man in the Tarot. That is how consciousness works, a seemingly unchanging point of "I" in a kaleidoscope-changing reality."

      I see where you are going with this, for sure. and it is very important to keep this clear. it really is a "kaleidoscope-changing reality." how could it not be, when it is all the dream of the One? and everything that implies.

      but we are created as beings that are meant to have relationship with each other and not just with the One (and this is actually the same thing, from different angles).

      what *that* means is that we need common ground. so we create that common ground whenever we need to, giving our experiences a common foundation for relationship. this is just what your aunt (and you!) were both participating in with that experience, I think - a more common ground that was closer to the truth of your deeper relationship.

      I have no doubt there are many thousands (millions...?) of Energy Being races "out there" who have such different "common grounds" amongst themselves - different than what we know - that we would be almost completely lost with their existence in Total Reality. what is home to them is utterly alien to us, and vice versa.

      BUT - there can be all kinds of room for expansion across realms, and this is an ongoing, and incredibly important, part of the process of evolution for all of us. cross pollination of Realities is going on all the time.

  73. It's nearly dawn here in D.C., spring out of bed hours early with fresh energy wanting to read/see all of you with my cup of cafe Rica. Feelin like a rascal. Alice in wonderland sorta party last night where I kept wondering how to spell the word kelidoscope. Now I know where it was flowing from, laughing with gulps. MO - kaleidoscope-changing reality !!!

    My life is full of people, family, friends loved ones but now I have this KuKu secret garden in my head here I talk to each of you much more in my mind than I could possibly write. ART you are also helping keep me more quiet & calm at Dept meetings. Giving most of the politics & issues unto Cesar. Here, I am a lady bug from Sabine's wild English rose nibbling on a Satish dish. Food for thought:

    Dear Dear Dear, OGF - I love going back through your family stories that you share. Called my mom and sister last night to get us planning to spend memorial weekend in the Blue Ridge mountains with grandma Suy. I'm going to walk the few miles this morning to work pretending like I'm pupster off the leash.

    ARTLEADS - Last month I wanted to share a lost driving story with you. It's in my Kaleidoscope of thoughts. My friends know my mis-adventures but I've never written them. Not that it matters, but so much of life has flowed off in chat. Telling our tales. Campfire stories. But who knows maybe sharing in writing reaches across time and states unlike live talk.

    When my dad ran for Arizona congress in 1964, Leah Spielberg was a friend & campaign supporter. Steven Spielberg was making his first student films at Arcadia High school in Scottsdale. His mom, Leah, had a cafe where they would show Steve's home movies. Of course I don't remember a thing cause I guess I was nearly 2 when my dad brought me wrapped up in a blanket to see "Firelight" (the student film that was Steve's basis for Close Encounters) I'm still a bit shy about explaining this next weird thing about me - I've mostly outgrown the condition I was born with - but to my embarrassment my dad still likes say I'm the original E.T. ---- In the 1960s the above ground atomic tests at the Nevada Proving grounds caused many babies in the southwest to be born with mutations --- took a decade for a group of western moms to prove the radioactivity effected their pregnancies. Ultimately I've turned my blueboy brain into an asset rather than a handicap. I'd love to tell the whole truth on DARK MOUNTAIN because real life is stranger than fiction. Maybe sharing here with you & Mo will help figure out if it is even possible to reach the Dark Mountain. Maybe somenight we will be reading OLD GROWTH FOREST over on the Dark Mountain web. She is a living novel. We are a collective art. In progress. In time ???

  74. Mark,

    You certainly get to the point. I don't know whether you'd put it like me--experiencing one's life through the rear view mirror. And why am I up early too? Maybe I'll go have coffee in a minute as well. Maybe we both understand life through cars... My high school art teacher, later to be identified as one of the important modernists, wrote a magnificent (surrealistic) short story about a couple's life unfolding in a single car, viewed from a single point, directly (I think) from behind. This is the view in my mind's eye:

    OK, the coffee was good, although not accompanied by the flair and style of yours. I thought about OGF too; so beguiling that the powerful men desire her. Running ragged, but living in grace. So thin and delicate she should model, but tougher than the men...

    I dreamt of mayhem. Murderous men machine-gun spraying people in a large hall, while some who barely escape into a gigantic restroom are climbing the steamy walls like cockroaches retreating from Raid. By a fluke of timing, they are spared. Then things change. Bob Marley is there with his group. The scene changes, and he's resting against me. He tells me something about my kid, who, it appears, has seen the light in some way.

    But I digress.

    A song from "Northern Exposure" series (?) had a line I liked: "I've been heading this way, all of my life..." I've always been preparing for this. I wasn't nuked as a baby, but my head was banged against the wall. (I was told about it some 20 years ago.) And I haven't been "right" since.

    So I've been in the mutant zone--somewhat like you--for a very long time. Without conscious knowledge of the predicament I was preparing for from birth. Patriarchy was among the dragons I was born to face. Just FYI.

    I never had the slightest interest in money, so Red Fox's gift economy links are right for me. But how slow I am to get it! While I always think these things (gift economics, community self-sufficiency, a world beyond politics) are good ideas--vaguely for the future--NBL and what (like kuku) falls off its shoulders have slowly made me understand that all this visionary stuff applies to NOW. It's a rather abrupt awakening. Transformation can't be put off for a single day longer.

    Maybe I'll leave it here for now.

  75. Here's that "mind's eye" link. Hope it comes up.

  76. Hi, ARTLEADS - I just printed everything you said on March 25 way above including this bit in the middle of your statement: "I feel that you can't change anything big (like climate death) if you can't change small things first. And it makes no sense to me to leap frog over the bulk of humanity, and stand apart as a tiny minority who "get it," while the others are deemed hopelessly obtuse, even irrelevant." Every paragraph of your full comment far above is so right on target. Taking it to desk.

    Sabine & Mo & Satish are making such progress with Bud on NBL. I just wrote a bit to Bud on NBL that included all of us. My heart broke for him as he finally got personal & less scientific. People do change. I wear my serious hat at work, but we are all so much more than that. Including nightmares & dreams for better.